Induced Orientation on Mfld. Boundary.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of induced orientation on the boundary of an orientable manifold. Participants explore the relationship between the normal vector field and the tangent space at boundary points, examining how these elements contribute to the orientation of the boundary in relation to the manifold itself.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the induced orientation on the boundary can be determined by considering a basis that includes the normal vector and tangent vectors, suggesting that if this basis aligns with the manifold's orientation, the boundary is positively oriented.
  • Another participant notes that the change-of-basis matrix must have a positive determinant for the boundary to be positively oriented, reinforcing the idea of orientation dependence on the basis chosen.
  • A different participant challenges the initial claim by stating that the normal vector cannot be part of the tangent space of the manifold, thus questioning the validity of the proposed basis for orientation.
  • This participant clarifies that the normal vector points outward from the boundary and discusses the existence of different conventions for induced orientation, emphasizing the "outward first" convention as a common approach compatible with Stokes' theorem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of the normal vector in defining the basis for the tangent space at boundary points. There is no consensus on the correct interpretation of the induced orientation, with multiple competing views presented.

Contextual Notes

There are several conventions for induced orientation that may lead to different interpretations of the relationship between the normal vector and the tangent space. The discussion highlights the complexity of defining orientation in the presence of boundaries.

WWGD
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O.K, please let me see if I got it right:

Let M be an orientable m-manifold with non-empty boundary B.

Let p be a point in B , and let {del/delX^1,...,del/delX^(m-1) }_p

be a basis for T_pB for every p in a boundary component .

Let N be a unit normal field on B . Now, this is the induced orientation (is it?):


We consider the collection {N_p, del/delX^1,...,delX^(m-1)}_p

(with N_p normal to M at p.)

AS IF p were a point in M, and not in the boundary B, (e.g., we can

smooth out the boundary so that it disappears, or we can cap

a disk or something, so that one boundary component disappears).

Then, if this basis {N_p, del/delX^1,...,delX^(m-1)}_p for p in M

of T_pM is oriented in agreement with the given orientation of M, (Jacobian of

chart overlap is positive, etc. ) then the boundary is positively oriented,

otherwise it is negatively oriented.

Is this it?
Thanks.
 
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Then, if this basis {N_p, del/delX^1,...,delX^(m-1)}_p for p in M

of T_pM is oriented in agreement with the given orientation of M, (Jacobian of

chart overlap is positive, etc. ) then the boundary is positively oriented,

I just realized we just need the change-of-basis matrix here must have

positive determinant.


otherwise it is negatively oriented.

Is this it?
Thanks.[/QUOTE]
 
Well, maybe you meant something else, but if N_p is normal to M, then N_p is not an element of T_pM (being normal to it!) and so it does not make sense to talk about {N_p, del/delX^1,...,delX^(m-1)} being a basis of T_pM.

Instead, N_p is the unit vector that point outward of M. Meaning that given a (boundary) chart around p mapping a nbhd of p to \mathbb{R}^{m-1}\times \mathbb{R}_+, where R_+ denotes the closed half real line {x:x>=0}, N_p is -\partial/\partial x ^m.

But modulo that change in the meaning of N_p, what you've written sounds good to me.
 
quasar987 said:
Well, maybe you meant something else, but if N_p is normal to M, then N_p is not an element of T_pM (being normal to it!) and so it does not make sense to talk about {N_p, del/delX^1,...,delX^(m-1)} being a basis of T_pM.

N_p is not normal to M, but to the boundary of M. The tangent space of M can be defined in boundary points exactly as for interior points. There are three types of vectors in TpM, for a boundary point p:

- vectors tangent to the boundary of M, these form a codimension 1 subvectorspace
- outward pointing vectors
- inward pointing vectors

There are unfortunately several different conventions for the induced orientation. I think the most common one (also the one mentioned by WWGD) is the "outward first" convention, which is also compatible with Stoke's theorem. It goes as follows:

Let p\in\partial M, w\in T_pM be an outward-pointing vector. Then (v_1,\ldots,v_{n-1}) is a positively oriented basis of T_p\partial M iff (w,v_1,\ldots,v_{n-1}) is a positively oriented basis of T_p M.
 

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