Inequalities of real and complex numbers

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the ordering of complex numbers and whether statements involving inequalities among them can be considered true. Participants explore the implications of attempting to establish an order on complex numbers, examining the properties required for an ordered field.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the truth of several inequality statements involving complex numbers, such as "1 < i" and "i < -i".
  • Another participant asserts that complex numbers cannot be treated as an ordered field, stating that neither "1 < i" nor "i < 1" is true.
  • It is noted that any attempt to define an order on complex numbers would lead to contradictions, particularly when considering the properties of an ordered field.
  • A further explanation details the necessary properties of an ordered field, including the implications of assuming an order for complex numbers, leading to contradictions regarding the relationships between 0, i, and -1.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that complex numbers cannot be ordered in a way that satisfies the properties of an ordered field. However, the discussion includes various interpretations and implications of this conclusion, indicating a lack of consensus on the specific nature of the contradictions that arise.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in defining order for complex numbers and the dependence on the properties of ordered fields. The contradictions presented rely on specific assumptions about the relationships among complex numbers.

Char. Limit
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I was considering complex numbers (independently) and I came across an interesting question. Are any of these statements true?

[tex]1<i[/tex]

[tex]1>i[/tex]

[tex]i<-i[/tex]

[tex]-1<i[/tex]

[tex]-i<i<-1[/tex]
 
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The complex numbers are not a "ordered field". Neither "1< i" nor "i< 1" is true. In fact, you simply cannot write "a< b" for general complex numbers a and b.
 
Indeed you cannot order complex numbers.
I guess, the order relations need to obey some sensible rules. With complex numbers you would always get contradictions. You could try to define the order by the modulus of the complex number. But then the universal law
[tex]a<b\qquad\Rightarrow\qquad a+c<b+c[/tex]
would not hold for all complex numbers. Therefore you wouldn't be able to use the most basic properties for rearranging equations with variables.
 
Specifically, in an ordered field, the order must obey
1) if a< b and c is any third member of the field then a+ c< b+ c.

2) if a< b and 0< c, then ac< bc

3) For any two a, b in the field one and only one must be true:
i) a= b
ii) a< b
iii) b< a.

Suppose the Complex number were an ordered field with order "<". Clearly i is not equal to 0 so by (iii) either i< 0 or 0< i.

If i< 0 then, adding -i to both sides, by (i) 0< -i. So by (ii) we must have i(-i)< o(-i) or [itex]-i^2= 1< 0[/itex]. Since this is not necessarily the "usual" order on real numbers that is not yet a contradiction. However, that implies, as before, that 0< -1 and then, multiplying i< 0 by -1, we have -i< 0, contradicting 0< -i above.

Suppose 0< i. Then 0(i)< i(i)= -1. But then 0(-1)< i(-1) so that 0< -i and, adding i to both sides, i< 0, again a contradiction.
 

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