Information travel faster than c ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of information travel in quantum mechanics, particularly in relation to a particle in a 2-D square well potential and the implications of wavefunction behavior over large distances. Participants explore the nature of wavefunctions, measurement, and the speed of information transfer in both quantum and classical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a particle in a potential well immediately knows its wavefunction upon entering, suggesting that information must travel to the particle at the speed of light.
  • Another participant argues that the wavefunction represents the particle and is non-local, meaning the particle is spread out over all distances before measurement.
  • A participant raises a hypothetical scenario involving a very large potential well (10 light years) to inquire if the behavior of the wavefunction changes with size, suggesting that information travel might be considered differently in such cases.
  • Concerns are expressed about the relationship between wavefunction behavior and the speed of information, particularly in the context of moving celestial bodies and gravitational interactions.
  • One participant questions the applicability of wavefunction concepts to larger systems, such as stars, and contrasts this with the behavior of quantum particles.
  • Another participant expresses confusion over the equivalence of quantum and classical systems in this context, indicating a lack of clarity in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of wavefunction behavior for information travel. There are competing views on how wavefunctions relate to measurement and the speed of information transfer, particularly when comparing quantum systems to classical scenarios.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the relationship between wavefunctions and information transfer, particularly regarding assumptions about measurement and the nature of quantum versus classical systems. The implications of distance on wavefunction behavior remain unresolved.

luxiaolei
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Hi,all, my problem is:

Consider a 2-D square well potential, say length 2L, and when I put one particle into this well,

Does this particles IMMEDIATELY know what wavefunction it should have?

I am trying to consider, once the particle enter the (middle of the)well, the information takes

at least t=L/c to reach that particle, to let the particle knows where it is in the well, and hence

what wavefunction should it have would be known by that particle.

Am I right?

Thanks in advance
 
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This question is a bit puzzling, because the wavefunction IS the "particle", at least with the "standard" QM interpretation. That is why we say that the particle is spread out over all distance (non-local) before its position is being measured.

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
This question is a bit puzzling, because the wavefunction IS the "particle", at least with the "standard" QM interpretation. That is why we say that the particle is spread out over all distance (non-local) before its position is being measured.

Zz.

Thanks for your answer, but what if say the length of the well is very very large, say the 10 light years? Theoretically, that particle would also spread out of this large potential well same as the small one? In these two cases, will it have no different in terms of thinking infomation travelling?
 
luxiaolei said:
Thanks for your answer, but what if say the length of the well is very very large, say the 10 light years? Theoretically, that particle would also spread out of this large potential well same as the small one? In these two cases, will it have no different in terms of thinking infomation travelling?

The length makes no difference. Before measurement, the particle IS spread out simultaneously over the region containing the wavefunction.

I still don't see how this has anything to do with the speed of information. Once you've made your measurement, that particle is at a particular location already and nowhere else. So what is the "information traveling" here?

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
The length makes no difference. Before measurement, the particle IS spread out simultaneously over the region containing the wavefunction.

I still don't see how this has anything to do with the speed of information. Once you've made your measurement, that particle is at a particular location already and nowhere else. So what is the "information traveling" here?

Zz.

Let me change to another example to expose the problem, say 2 stars has distance 1 light year, if I move one, how long does it take for another to move?

If consider one starA have its own wavefunction(superposition of all the particles it contained), and another star offer its gravitation potentail for starA to ''sit'' in. If accroding to what you explained, because, starA's wavefunction is sperad all over the space, then if move starA, starB should be move instantly,i.e. infomation is instant updated.

I asked this peoblem in Relativity part, the answer is, starB will move 1 year later rather than instantly.

Am I right? Or wavefunction does not apply to big stuff? How about just two particles distanced 1 light year?

Thanks a lot
 
luxiaolei said:
Let me change to another example to expose the problem, say 2 stars has distance 1 light year, if I move one, how long does it take for another to move?

If consider one starA have its own wavefunction(superposition of all the particles it contained), and another star offer its gravitation potentail for starA to ''sit'' in. If accroding to what you explained, because, starA's wavefunction is sperad all over the space, then if move starA, starB should be move instantly,i.e. infomation is instant updated.

I asked this peoblem in Relativity part, the answer is, starB will move 1 year later rather than instantly.

Am I right? Or wavefunction does not apply to big stuff? How about just two particles distanced 1 light year?

Thanks a lot

Is this even an equivalent question? One is a quantum system. The other isn't!

I'm getting even more confused here. Maybe someone else has a clearer idea on what you want, so I'll let him/her tackle this.

Zz.
 

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