How does the event horizon of a black hole form during the collapse of a star?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the formation of the event horizon (EH) during the collapse of a star into a black hole (BH). Participants explore whether the EH first appears at zero radius or with a non-zero radius, and the implications of these scenarios on the mass captured during the collapse.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the EH first appears at zero radius and grows outward, or if it appears with a non-zero radius, suggesting that if it appears with a non-zero radius, some stellar mass may be captured inside without crossing the EH.
  • Another participant asserts that the EH is defined by the mass of the star, indicating that once the collapsing star's radius is smaller than the EH radius, it becomes a black hole.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that the formation of the EH is not straightforward, as it may appear inside the collapsing star, complicating the understanding of its formation.
  • One participant expresses confusion about how Hawking's holographic principle addresses the information paradox, noting that it seems to only apply to particles that have crossed the EH and does not account for mass trapped inside during the collapse.
  • Another participant proposes that since the minimum mass necessary to form a black hole is the Planck mass, it is reasonable to conclude that all black holes begin with a non-zero radius, which may grow rapidly depending on the infall rate.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the event horizon's formation, with no consensus reached regarding whether it first appears at zero or non-zero radius. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the implications of these scenarios.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the complexity of the event horizon's formation, suggesting that additional factors such as rotation and the dynamics of stellar collapse may influence the discussion. There are also references to theoretical minimum and maximum infall rates, which remain unexplored in detail.

anorlunda
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I was reading Stephen Hawking offers new resolution of black hole paradox. Most is over my head but when he mentions particles falling in through the EH, it raises a question.

When a BH is created in a collapsing star, does the EH first appear at zero radius and grow outward, or does the EH first appear with non-zero radius? In the latter case, there would be some stellar mass captured inside that never did fall in through the EH.
 
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anorlunda said:
does the EH first appear at zero radius and grow outward, or does the EH first appear with non-zero radius?

The latter.
 
The event horizon is defined by the mass of the star. Once the collapsing star radius is smaller than the event horizon radius, it is a black hole.
 
mathman said:
The event horizon is defined by the mass of the star. Once the collapsing star radius is smaller than the event horizon radius, it is a black hole.

It is not that easy (even without rotation) because the event horizon appears inside the collapsing star.
 
anorlunda said:
When a BH is created in a collapsing star, does the EH first appear at zero radius and grow outward, or does the EH first appear with non-zero radius? In the latter case, there would be some stellar mass captured inside that never did fall in through the EH.

You might find this link useful- http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/bh-st.html
 
Thanks for the replies. But now I don't understand how Hawking can say that a hologram at the event horizon resolves the information paradox.

The Information Paradox for Black Holes
S. W. Hawking
http://arxiv.org/abs/1509.01147

Hawking's reasoning seems to apply only to particles that fell in through the EH. It would not address the information of mass trapped inside during stellar collapse which never did cross the EH.
 
Since the minimum mass necessary to form a black hole is the Planck mass, it appears safe to deduce all black holes begin with a non zero radius. I would expect them to grow rapidly, and possibly frenetically, from that point forward depending on the infall rate. I have no clue how you might go about calculating a minimum, or maximum infall rates. Given the smallest known black hole is about 5 solar masses, that is a pretty sizable discrepancy between any theoretical minimum and the observed minimum. I doubt many theorists have enough knowledge of condensed matter physics and happen to be maschistic enough to try and reconstruct a black hole from the ground up.
 

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