Can a valid metric always be inverted?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion centers around the inversion of a tensor equation involving a metric tensor, specifically the relationship between components of two tensors. Participants are exploring the properties of the transverse metric and its potential inverses in the context of general relativity or differential geometry.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to express y-components in terms of x-components using the equation x^{a} = h^{a}{ }_{b} y^{b}. There is uncertainty about the correctness of the assumption that h_{a}{ }^{b} h^{a}{ }_{c} = \delta^{b}{ }_{c} as a means to find the inverse.
  • Questions arise regarding the definition of the metric h and its properties, particularly in relation to null vectors and the implications of having null eigenvectors.
  • Some participants suggest contracting the tensors to explore relationships between the components, while others express confusion about the operations involving the metric.
  • Concerns are raised about whether every valid metric has an inverse and the implications of this for the specific metric being discussed.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various interpretations being explored. Some participants have provided insights into the properties of the metric and its potential inverses, while others are questioning the assumptions made about the metric's invertibility. There is no explicit consensus, but the conversation is productive and delves into the complexities of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the constraints of the problem, including the definitions of the metrics involved and the nature of the vectors being discussed. The discussion reflects a mix of established knowledge and areas of uncertainty, particularly regarding the generality of the metric's properties.

Pacopag
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Homework Statement


I would like to know how to "invert" a tensor equation (see 2. Homework Equations ).

Homework Equations


x^{a} = h^{a}{ } _{b} y^{b}.
I just want to know how to get y-components in terms of x-components in general.

The Attempt at a Solution


I want to believe that h_{a}{ }^{b} h^{a}{ } _{c} = \delta^{b}{ } _{c}, but I'm not really sure that this is correct. Any help? Thanks.
 
Last edited:
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Pacopag said:

Homework Statement


I would like to know how to "invert" a tensor equation (see 2. Homework Equations ).


Homework Equations


x^{a} = h^{a}{ } _{b} y^{b}.
I just want to know how to get y-components in terms of x-components in general.



The Attempt at a Solution


I want to believe that h_{a}{ }^{b} h^{a}{ } _{c} = \delta^{b}{ } _{c}, but I'm not really sure that this is correct. Any help? Thanks.

what is the definition of your h??
 
h_{a b}=g_{a b}+k_{a} N_{b} + N_{a} k_{b}

where k and N are both null vectors and N_{a} k^{a} = -1
Here, h is called the transverse metric (i.e. transverse the the null vector fields k and N.
 
Pacopag said:
h_{a b}=g_{a b}+k_{a} N_{b} + N_{a} k_{b}

where k and N are both null vectors and N_{a} k^{a} = -1
Here, h is called the transverse metric (i.e. transverse the the null vector fields k and N.

Then you can calculate explicitly h_a^b h^a_c, no?
 
I can expand it all out, but I don't know what to do with terms like g_{b}{}^{c} k_{c} N^{a}.
I mean, I can't do the typical contraction-like operation with the metric g.
Another thing: is g^{a}{}_{c} g_{b}{}^{c}=\delta^{a}{}_{b} ?
I'm pretty sure this is the case for the Minkowski metric, but what about a general metric?
 
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Pacopag said:
h_{a b}=g_{a b}+k_{a} N_{b} + N_{a} k_{b}

where k and N are both null vectors and N_{a} k^{a} = -1
Here, h is called the transverse metric (i.e. transverse the the null vector fields k and N.

So h_{a }^b=g_{a}^b+k_{a} N^{b} + N_{a} k^{b}
and

h^{a }_c=g^{a}_c+k^{a} N_{c} + N^{a} k_{c}

So then you may contract them over "a"
 
Pacopag said:
I can expand it all out, but I don't know what to do with terms like g_{b}{}^{c} k_{c} N^{a}.
I mean, I can't do the typical contraction-like operation with the metric g.
Another thing: is g^{a}{}_{c} g_{b}{}^{c}=\delta^{a}{}_{b} ?
I'm pretty sure this is the case for the Minkowski metric, but what about a general metric?

g_{b}{}^{c} k_{c} N^{a} is just k_b N^a
 
In that case, I'm getting h^{a}{}_{c} h_{b}{}^{c}=g^{a}{}_{c} g_{b}{}^{c}+2(k_{b} N^{a} + N_{b} k^{a} +1)=g^{a}{}_{c} g_{b}{}^{c} + 2(h^{a}{}_{b}-g^{a}{}_{b}+1). This doesn't look like the kronecker delta I want in order to verify that I have the inverse of h.
 
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Pacopag said:

Homework Statement


I would like to know how to "invert" a tensor equation (see 2. Homework Equations ).


Homework Equations


x^{a} = h^{a}{ } _{b} y^{b}.
I just want to know how to get y-components in terms of x-components in general.



The Attempt at a Solution


I want to believe that h_{a}{ }^{b} h^{a}{ } _{c} = \delta^{b}{ } _{c}, but I'm not really sure that this is correct. Any help? Thanks.

Sorry, I just went back to your first post. I am not sure why you want o invert h. why not simply apply g_a^c to both sides of your first equation?
 
  • #10
g_{a}{}^{c} x^{a} =g_{a}{}^{c} h^{a}{ } _{b} y^{b}.
x^{c} = h^{c}{ } _{b} y^{b}.
I'm not getting it. Am I doing that wrong? I want to isolate the y-components in terms of the x-components. So my plan is to find the inverse of h, then apply it both sides of my first equation.
 
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  • #11
The vectors k^\alpha,\,N^\alpha are null eigenvectors of h_{\mu\nu}, i.e. h_{\mu\nu}\,N^\nu=0,\,h_{\mu\nu}\,k^\nu=0, thus h_{\mu\nu}\,h^{\nu\tau}=h_\mu{}^\tau.
Now let x^\alpha=h^\alpha{}_\beta\,y^\beta \quad (\ast) and contract with h^\gamma{}_\alpha in order to get

h^\gamma{}_\alpha\,x^\alpha=h^\gamma{}_\alpha\,h^\alpha{}_\beta\,y^\beta\Rightarrow h^\gamma{}_\alpha\,x^\alpha=h^\gamma{}_\beta\,y^\beta\overset{(\ast)}\Rightarrow h^\gamma{}_\alpha\,x^\alpha=x^\gamma \quad \forall x^\gamma

thus (\ast)\Rightarrow y^\alpha=x^\alpha.
 
  • #12
Rainbow Child said:
The vectors k^\alpha,\,N^\alpha are null eigenvectors of h_{\mu\nu}, i.e. h_{\mu\nu}\,N^\nu=0,\,h_{\mu\nu}\,k^\nu=0, thus h_{\mu\nu}\,h^{\nu\tau}=h_\mu{}^\tau.
Now let x^\alpha=h^\alpha{}_\beta\,y^\beta \quad (\ast) and contract with h^\gamma{}_\alpha in order to get

h^\gamma{}_\alpha\,x^\alpha=h^\gamma{}_\alpha\,h^\alpha{}_\beta\,y^\beta\Rightarrow h^\gamma{}_\alpha\,x^\alpha=h^\gamma{}_\beta\,y^\beta\overset{(\ast)}\Rightarrow h^\gamma{}_\alpha\,x^\alpha=x^\gamma \quad \forall x^\gamma

thus (\ast)\Rightarrow y^\alpha=x^\alpha.

Ah! I was not told they were null eigenvectors of h!
 
  • #13
Rainbow Child, your logic seems bulletproof, but the conclusion seems strange to me. If y^{a}=x^{a}, then doesn't that mean that h is just the identity (i.e. h^{a}{}_{b}=\delta^{a}{}_{b})? I don't think that this can be since k is arbitrary.
 
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  • #14
It should, if h^\alpha{}_\beta has an inverse. But I don't think it has! :smile:
 
  • #15
Then that makes things much more difficult for me. I'll keep plugging away. Thank you kdv and Rainbow Child for your replies.
 
  • #16
Does every valid metric have an inverse? If so, then I would expect that h has an inverse because its interpretation is that it is the metric on a hypersurface that is orthogonal to the congruence defined by k.
 

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