Is A a Measurable Set with Sandwich Property?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the measurability of a set A, which is a subset of the real line R, characterized by the existence of measurable sets B and C such that B is contained in A, C contains A, and the measure of the difference between C and B is less than any given ε. Participants explore various proofs and approaches to establish whether A is measurable, examining definitions and properties related to outer measure and measurable sets.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a proof strategy based on the definition of measurability, aiming to show that m(E) = m(E∩A) + m(E\A) for all sets E.
  • Another participant questions the derivation of an inequality related to the measures of sets E, A, B, and C, seeking clarification on the steps taken.
  • A different approach is presented, utilizing the completeness of measures derived from outer measures, suggesting that any subset of a measure zero set is measurable.
  • Several participants discuss a method involving a sequence of measurable sets B_n and C_n, demonstrating that the measure of the difference between A and the union of B_n converges to zero, thus implying A's measurability.
  • One participant notes that the proof relies on the Caratheodory criterion, emphasizing that if a set has zero outer measure, it is measurable.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing viewpoints on the proof techniques and the implications of certain inequalities. There is no consensus on a single approach, as multiple methods are proposed and debated.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the dependence on definitions of measurability and outer measure, and the discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the properties of measurable sets.

Funky1981
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Suppose that A is subset of R (real line) with the property for every ε > 0 there are measurable sets B and C s.t. B⊂A⊂C and m(C\B)<ε
Prove A is measurable

By definition A is measurable we need to prove m(E)=m(E∩A)+m(E\A) for all E

the ≤ is trivial enough to show ≥:

Since C is measurable then m(E)= m(E∩C)+m(E\C)
≥ m(E∩A)+m(E\A)-ε (Since A is subset of C)
then move the ε to LHS and since for every ε so, let ε->0 , obtain the result.

is my solution right? i thought i should use B and m(C\B)<ε somewhere. Could some one help me to check it??

many thanks
 
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I assume your ##m## denotes outer measure. I'm not sure how you obtained your inequality
$$m(E \cap C) + m(E\setminus C) \geq m(E \cap A) + m(E \setminus A) - \epsilon$$
I agree that ##m(E \cap C) \geq m(E \cap A)##, but how did you get the rest?

I was able to solve this pretty straightforwardly by using the fact that ##B## and ##C## are measureable.

Given ##\epsilon > 0##, there are ##B## and ##C## such that ##B \subset A \subset C## and ##m(C \setminus B) < \epsilon##. Let ##E## be any set. Since ##B## and ##C## are measurable, we have (*)
$$m(E) = m(E \cap C) + m(E \setminus C)$$
and
$$m(E) = m(E \cap B) + m(E \setminus B)$$
We also have the following inequalities due to the nesting of the sets:
$$m(E \cap B) \leq m(E \cap A) \leq m(E \cap C)$$
$$m(E \setminus C) \leq m(E \setminus A) \leq m(E \setminus B)$$
Adding these two inequalities, we get
$$m(E \cap B) + m(E \setminus C) \leq m(E \cap A) + m(E \setminus A) \leq m(E \cap C) + m(E \setminus B)$$
In light of (*) above, it therefore suffices to show that ##m(E \setminus B) \leq m(E \setminus C) + \epsilon##. But this follows easily from the fact that ##E \setminus B = (E \setminus C) \cup (E \cap (C \setminus B))##.
 
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One nice consequence of this exercise is that we can immediately see that a measure obtained from an outer measure is complete: in other words, any subset of a set of measure zero is measurable. To see this, simply take ##B = \emptyset## and let ##C## be any set of measure zero.
 
Another way to do this:
For any [itex]n\in\mathbb{N}[/itex] [itex]\exists B_n, C_n[/itex] s.t. [itex]B_n \subset A \subset C_n[/itex] and [itex]m(C_n \setminus B_n)<1/n[/itex]
Then [itex]m(A \setminus \bigcup _{i=1}^∞B_n)≤m(C_n \setminus B_n)<1/n[/itex] for all n [itex]\Rightarrow[/itex] [itex]m(A \setminus \bigcup _{i=1}^∞B_n)=0[/itex] [itex]\Rightarrow[/itex] [itex]A \setminus \bigcup _{i=1}^∞B_n[/itex] is measurable [itex]\Rightarrow[/itex] [itex]A = (A \setminus \bigcup _{i=1}^∞B_n) \bigcup (\bigcup _{i=1}^∞B_n)[/itex] is measurable, since each [itex]B_n[/itex] is measurable and the measurable sets form a σ-algebra.
 
Axiomer said:
Another way to do this:
For any [itex]n\in\mathbb{N}[/itex] [itex]\exists B_n, C_n[/itex] s.t. [itex]B_n \subset A \subset C_n[/itex] and [itex]m(C_n \setminus B_n)<1/n[/itex]
Then [itex]m(A \setminus \bigcup _{i=1}^∞B_n)≤m(C_n \setminus B_n)<1/n[/itex] for all n [itex]\Rightarrow[/itex] [itex]m(A \setminus \bigcup _{i=1}^∞B_n)=0[/itex] [itex]\Rightarrow[/itex] [itex]A \setminus \bigcup _{i=1}^∞B_n[/itex] is measurable [itex]\Rightarrow[/itex] [itex]A = (A \setminus \bigcup _{i=1}^∞B_n) \bigcup (\bigcup _{i=1}^∞B_n)[/itex] is measurable, since each [itex]B_n[/itex] is measurable and the measurable sets form a σ-algebra.
That's a nice proof. It requires knowing that any set with zero outer measure is measurable, but that's easy enough to prove directly from the Caratheodory criterion:

If ##E## is any set and ##m(A) = 0##, then ##m(E \cap A) \leq m(A) = 0##, so ##m(E \cap A) + m(E \setminus A) = m(E \setminus A) \leq m(E)##. The reverse inequality, ##m(E) \leq m(E \cap A) + m(E \setminus A)##, is an immediate consequence of subadditivity.
 

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