- #31
zenith8
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unusualname said:
Well done, Ken - you beat me. Would you prefer nuts or a cigar?
Is Bohmian Mechanics Incompatible with Free Will and the Creation of Art?
- Context: Graduate
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- Born rule Derivation
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Discussion Overview
The discussion centers on the compatibility of Bohmian Mechanics (BM) with concepts of free will and artistic creation, particularly in relation to Zurek's derivation of Born's rule and its implications. Participants explore theoretical frameworks, assumptions, and the nature of measurements in quantum mechanics.
Discussion Character
- Debate/contested
- Technical explanation
- Conceptual clarification
Main Points Raised
- Some participants discuss Zurek's assumptions regarding Hilbert spaces and unitary evolution, questioning their correctness and implications for BM.
- Others argue that in BM, Born's rule emerges naturally as a result of particles evolving according to the guiding wave function, akin to classical particles reaching thermal equilibrium.
- A participant suggests that Zurek's derivation should be demonstrated with a finite number of states to validate its claims.
- There is a contention that the Bohmian argument may have discovered the reason for Born's rule under the assumption of deterministic evolution, while others propose it could also represent a thermodynamic limit of non-deterministic evolution.
- Some participants highlight that typical measurements in quantum mechanics do not yield repeatable outcomes, challenging Zurek's assumptions about measurement consistency.
- Concerns are raised about the implications of BM on free will, with references to Shakespeare's work as a metaphor for the deterministic nature of BM.
- There are discussions about the experimental detectability of non-Born-rule distributions and their potential relevance to early universe predictions.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants express multiple competing views regarding the implications of Bohmian Mechanics and Zurek's derivation, with no clear consensus reached on the compatibility of BM with free will or the validity of Zurek's assumptions.
Contextual Notes
Participants note limitations in the assumptions made regarding measurements and the nature of quantum states, emphasizing that the discussion remains open to interpretation and further exploration.
Well done, Ken - you beat me. Would you prefer nuts or a cigar?
- #32
unusualname
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zenith8 said:
zenith8, you're really being strange, your posts (over a couple of years) have been enlightening, educational, why this silliness now?
- #33
Ken G
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Nuts please, cigars scare me!zenith8 said:
- #34
Gold Barz
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unusualname said:
I agree, now how do we go on about making it happen?
- #35
mitchell porter
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I don't know if you're serious about this at all, but do you really think that a deterministic explanation of Hamlet's creation couldn't be produced? It is a linguistic object. It conforms to the syntactic rules of English, and it has a conceptual content expressed according to the semantics of English. It's a reworking of an older story, by someone in the new cultural and historical context of the 1600s. The intent to produce such a reworking was produced by the desires and circumstances of the author. The reworking itself was produced by the cognitive processes of the author, harnessed towards this goal.unusualname said:Actually that's probably a good basis for a "proof" that BM is wrong since Shakespeare used free-will to write Hamlet, which doesn't exist in bohmian world
Unless of course you can show me Hamlet evolving in the Bohmian deterministic equations
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