Is f''(x)=0 always a point of inflexion?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether a point where the second derivative, f''(x), equals zero is always a point of inflection. Participants explore the implications of the second derivative in relation to curvature and extrema, examining both theoretical and practical aspects of determining points of inflection.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes a personal realization that f''(x)=0 does not necessarily indicate a point of inflection, using the example of x^4 at x=0, which is a minimum.
  • Another participant explains that while f''(a)=0 could suggest a point of inflection, it is essential to check the curvature on either side of the point to confirm this.
  • A different participant questions the existence of a definitive test for identifying the nature of extrema, suggesting that a table of values might not be sufficient.
  • One participant describes a method involving a number line to determine the sign of the second derivative around the point in question, indicating that a sign change confirms a point of inflection.
  • Another participant emphasizes that for a point to be classified as an inflection point, the second derivative must change sign, using the function x^2 as an example where f''(x) remains positive around x=0, thus not being an inflection point.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the criteria for identifying points of inflection, with some emphasizing the need for a sign change in the second derivative, while others seek a more definitive test. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the existence of a universally accepted method for determining points of inflection.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of examining the behavior of the second derivative around the point where it equals zero, indicating that assumptions about curvature and extrema may vary based on specific functions.

prasannapakkiam
Okay, I was programming this game, when I discovered something probably obvious. I realized that I wrongly assumed that when f"(x)=0, it is a point of inflexion. I found that when doing the test for x^4, (at 0, it is the minima); the test came with 0. So is there any way of finding the nature of the extrema in situations such as this?
 
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This is a common mistake, particularly with A-Level math students. The second derivative gives you information about the rate of change of the derivative, or the curvature of the curve. Now, if the second derivative at some point is positive this means that the curvature at this point is concave up, like the shape of y = x2. Equally, if the second derivative is negative at some point, this means that the curvature is concave down, like the shape of y = - x2.

Now, a point of inflection means that the curvature of the curve has change, e.g. from concave up before the point, to concave down after the point. Now, if we have some value of x, say x = a such that f''(a)=0; then it is quite possible that this is a point of inflection. However, to be certain of this we need to look at the curvature either side of the point. I.e. we need to take [itex]f''(a - \delta)[/itex] and [itex]f''(a + \delta)[/itex] where [itex]\delta[/itex] is a small positive number. If the sign of the second derivative changes from before x=a to after x=a, then we have a point of inflection.

I hope that made sense.
 
But this is just the same if I drew up a table of values and found the nature of the extremas. Is there a proper definitive test for this?
 
Well, that's the way it's done in my Calc class. You don't really need a table of values, just a numberline:
Code:
<---|--->
    x
where x is where the second derivative is 0. Just pick a random value greater than x and see if the second derivative ends up positive or negative, and do the same for a smaller number. If there's a sign change, then there's a point of inflection.
 
The sign of the function f''(x) in the neighborhood of the point is what determines weather it's a point of inflexion or not. For example, in the function x^2, x^2 stays positive on every value left and right of 0, so 0 is not a point of inflexion of the function x^4. For a point of inflexion to occur, the derivative has to change sign, by definition.
 

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