Is Fermat's Marginal Proof the Key to Solving His Last Theorem?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Fermat's Last Theorem and the possibility of a proof that Fermat may have conceived using the mathematics of his time. Participants explore the implications of various mathematical formulations related to the theorem and engage in reasoning about the validity of proposed proofs.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests a proof by contradiction for Fermat's Last Theorem, proposing that if a certain equation holds, it leads to a contradiction regarding the relationships between A, B, and C.
  • Another participant challenges the assumption that the relationship holds for all natural numbers, arguing that even if a specific example exists, it does not imply a general case.
  • Further discussion questions whether a reductio ad absurdum can still be valid if it only holds for some natural numbers.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the implications of assuming the existence of a particular set of natural numbers that satisfy the conditions of the theorem.
  • One participant acknowledges their novice status and expresses gratitude for the insights shared in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; there are multiple competing views regarding the validity of the proposed proof and the assumptions made about the relationships between the numbers involved.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the nature of the numbers involved and the scope of the theorem remain unresolved, particularly regarding the implications of specific examples versus general cases.

The Seeker
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In trying to work out what Fermat may have conceived of as his proof, using the mathematics available at the time I have the following suggestion:

Fermat's Last Theorem can be expressed the following way:

There are no natural numbers A, B, C, N >1 for which a non-trivial solution of the following formula exists:

(1) A ^(2N+1) + B ^(2N+1) = C ^(2N+1)

To prove this we begin by assuming (1) is true and rewriting it as follows:

(2) A x A ^(2N) + B x B ^(2N) = C x C ^(2N)


We now proceed to prove that (1) cannot hold by creating a contradiction. Firstly we reasonably assume that for any valid triple of the form (1) and (2) C must be greater than A and B according to the logic of valid pythagorean triples. Secondly we introduce the general function:

(3) P x (A ^M + B ^M) = P x C ^M

And similarly assume it holds for all* natural numbers A, B, C, P, M. It therefore follows that there must be natural numbers M and P for which P=C. This would imply:

(4) C x A ^M + C x B ^M = C x C ^M = C ^(M+1)

Which, taking (1) to be true, and substituting 2N for M implies C=A=B. But for valid triples C>A and C>B and so a contradiction has been established which proves that (1) cannot hold.

* That should be at least one set of natural numbers A, B, C, P, M, where P=C.


It appears far too simple but why?
 
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The general consensus is that Fermat was mistaken. Wiles nearly had to invent entirely new fields of mathematics to construct his proof; almost no one actually believes that Fermat constructed one as simple as he claims.
 
The Seeker said:
In trying to work out what Fermat may have conceived of as his proof, using the mathematics available at the time I have the following suggestion:

Fermat's Last Theorem can be expressed the following way:

There are no natural numbers A, B, C, N >1 for which a non-trivial solution of the following formula exists:

(1) A ^(2N+1) + B ^(2N+1) = C ^(2N+1)

To prove this we begin by assuming (1) is true and rewriting it as follows:

(2) A x A ^(2N) + B x B ^(2N) = C x C ^(2N)


We now proceed to prove that (1) cannot hold by creating a contradiction. Firstly we reasonably assume that for any valid triple of the form (1) and (2) C must be greater than A and B according to the logic of valid pythagorean triples. Secondly we introduce the general function:

(3) P x (A ^M + B ^M) = P x C ^M

And similarly assume it holds for all natural numbers A, B, C, P, M.
I see a logic problem right at this step. To do your reductio proof, you are assuming there exist a, b, c, and n such that an + bn = cn. That's fine.

But that certainly does not imply that this relationship holds for all a, b, c, n, and p as above. Even if FLT were false, there would be particular a-b-c-n examples. The Fermat relationship would surely not hold for all numbers a, b, c, and n.
 
Thanks, would it still be a reductio if it could hold for only some natural numbers?
 
I suppose what I'm wondering is - if we assume there is at least one natural number solution for which P=C for (1) and (3) would that immediately establish the contradiction?
 
The Seeker said:
Thanks, would it still be a reductio if it could hold for only some natural numbers?

FLT says that there is NO 4-tuple (a,b,c,n) satisfying an + bn =cn +an (with n > 2 etc.)

The negation of that statement is that there exists SOME 4-tuple satisfying the Fermat condition.

Surely you can see that it would be unreasonable to assume that ALL 4-tuples satisfied the Fermat condition. Can you see why that wouldn't make any sense?
 
I think I understand you, I should really have said that in order to establish the reductio I assume the existence of a particular set of natural numbers A, B, C, P, M such that in (2) and (3) P=C which would assert both that C > A and B and C=A=B. I'm a novice and I'm in the dark about so much, I'm grateful for your time and comments.
 
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I get it now, thanks again :)
 

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