Is it possible for cavitation to occur in air?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the possibility of cavitation occurring in air, exploring the conditions under which cavitation happens in liquids and whether similar phenomena can be observed in gases. Participants examine the definitions and mechanisms of cavitation, particularly in relation to pressure changes and phase transitions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the speed required for cavitation to occur.
  • Another participant clarifies that cavitation specifically refers to the formation of gas bubbles in a liquid due to pressure dropping below the vapor pressure, and distinguishes this from situations involving air.
  • There is a repeated question regarding whether the near-vacuum created by cavitation in water could occur in air.
  • A participant explains that while gases can experience low pressure, they do not undergo phase changes like liquids do under similar conditions, thus making cavitation in air impossible.
  • Additionally, a phenomenon related to air is mentioned, where a drop in pressure can lead to condensation of water vapor if the temperature falls below the dew point, exemplified by cloud formation at airplane wingtips during humid conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definition of cavitation and its dependence on liquid properties, but there is some debate about the implications of pressure changes in air and whether any analogous phenomena exist.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the specific conditions required for cavitation and the differences between liquid and gas behavior under pressure changes. There is an unresolved aspect regarding the potential for similar effects in gases, as well as the specific conditions under which condensation occurs.

Hatrack
How fast would something need to travel for this to occur?
 
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When a propeller, usually in a static (no forward motion) situation, spins so fast that it stalls, that stall is sometimes mistakenly called cavitation, but the technical meaning of cavitation refers to liquids where some of the liquid has been turned into a gas.
 
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But doesn't cavitation in water cause a near-vacuum? Why couldn't this be caused in air?
 
Hatrack said:
But doesn't cavitation in water cause a near-vacuum? Why couldn't this be caused in air?

No, cavitation is when the pressure in a liquid gets low enough, typically due to an object passing through, that is falls below the vapor pressure of the liquid and it locally evaporates, causing bubbles of the gaseous version of that substance to form in the middle of the liquid. For obvious reasons, this cannot happen in a flow that is already entirely composed of gas.

A gas can certainly end up with a pressure so low that it becomes rarefied, but it can't have a phase change as a results of locally lowered pressure due to the flow conditions like a liquid can.

There is a phenomenon in air that is sort of the opposite effect, though. Sometimes, when the pressure drops in an air flow and the air is humid enough, the temperature accompanying that pressure drop can get low enough that it falls below the local dew point. In those cases, you can actually get condensation of the water vapor and a sort of cloud will form. This is precisely what happens at the tips of the wings of an airplane when it is taking off or landing on a humid day. That example is due to the wingtip vortices, whose cores rotate at a very high rate and have a correspondingly low pressure and temperature.
 
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