Is it possible to build a Telescope the Size of Half the Solar System size using all Lagrange Points?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of constructing a telescope with an aperture size equivalent to half the solar system by utilizing Lagrange Points for deploying multiple telescopes. The conversation explores theoretical implications, technical challenges, and the potential role of AI in addressing these challenges.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that using Lagrange Points could allow for the construction of a telescope aperture approaching the astronomical unit (AU) scale through interferometry.
  • Concerns are raised about the necessity of filling space with sufficient dishes/apertures to achieve good resolution, noting that a limited number of baselines would not be advantageous.
  • Another participant highlights the challenges of combining signals from telescopes precisely for interferometry, particularly at optical wavelengths, due to the difficulties in measuring phase information and the movement of spacecraft.
  • There is a proposal that AI could potentially mitigate some of the glaring issues mentioned, although this is met with skepticism regarding AI's capabilities in stabilizing clocks or improving sensor technology.
  • Further discussion questions how AI might enhance observational data quality, emphasizing the risks of relying on AI predictions that could lead to incorrect assumptions about celestial positions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of AI in addressing the technical challenges of telescope construction and data quality. While some see potential benefits, others argue that AI may not effectively resolve the fundamental issues presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations related to the assumptions about Lagrange Points, the technical requirements for interferometry, and the implications of using AI in astronomical data interpretation. Specific unresolved mathematical or technical steps are not detailed.

Mukhtar
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If all the Lagrange Points(L1, L2, L3 and L4) are utilized to depart telescopes like JWST, Luvoir and Habex then is it possible to have a Telescope aperture with a half size of Solar System?
 
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Lagrange Points are specific to a two-body gravitationally-interacting system. So I guess the question is: which Lagrange points are you referring to? If you are thinking of Earth-Sun Lagrange points, then yeah, maybe you could start to build up through interferometry an aperture approaching the AU scale (not the scale of the entire solar system). There are some glaring problems I can think of:
  • You need to actually fill in the space with dishes/apertures to get good resolution. The more inteferometry baselines (pairwise separations of dishes) you have, the better you will do. But you're not going to get much advantage with only handful of baselines.
  • You need to combine signals from the telescopes very precisely in order to do interferometry: either in real time, or after the fact using precise phase information about the EM waves measured by each telescope. Precisely measuring the phase information at optical (UV/vis/IR) wavelengths (compared to radio) is very challenging due to the short wavelength. Combine that with the fact that your spacecraft move around (changing your baselines continuously) and it's not obvious to me that we have precise enough positioning/stationkeeping and timekeeping ability to pull this off.
 
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LastScattered1090 said:
Lagrange Points are specific to a two-body gravitationally-interacting system. So I guess the question is: which Lagrange points are you referring to? If you are thinking of Earth-Sun Lagrange points, then yeah, maybe you could start to build up through interferometry an aperture approaching the AU scale (not the scale of the entire solar system). There are some glaring problems I can think of:
  • You need to actually fill in the space with dishes/apertures to get good resolution. The more inteferometry baselines (pairwise separations of dishes) you have, the better you will do. But you're not going to get much advantage with only handful of baselines.
  • You need to combine signals from the telescopes very precisely in order to do interferometry: either in real time, or after the fact using precise phase information about the EM waves measured by each telescope. Precisely measuring the phase information at optical (UV/vis/IR) wavelengths (compared to radio) is very challenging due to the short wavelength. Combine that with the fact that your spacecraft move around (changing your baselines continuously) and it's not obvious to me that we have precise enough positioning/stationkeeping and timekeeping ability to pull this off.
The glaring issues can maybe removed by AI to some extent.
 
Mukhtar said:
The glaring issues can maybe removed by AI to some extent.
I don't see how. AI is not a more stable clock, nor is it higher speed electronics. AI does not reduce positional drift from micrometeorite impacts, nor does it give you extra sensors. What did you have in mind?
 
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Ibix said:
I don't see how. AI is not a more stable clock, nor is it higher speed electronics. AI does not reduce positional drift from micrometeorite impacts, nor does it give you extra sensors. What did you have in mind?
Actually I was trying to mean the prediction of positions of planets and stars with their distance differences taken into account along with the size of stars and planets(if real image cannot be captured of such bodies then can be prepared through AI with all the information)
 
Mukhtar said:
Actually I was trying to mean the prediction of positions of planets and stars with their distance differences taken into account along with the size of stars and planets(if real image cannot be captured of such bodies then can be prepared through AI with all the information)

How, specifically, might this facilitate the quality of the observational data received? AI is not a magic bullet.

Astronomy is about getting new data we don't have. If AI gets hold of it and interpolates stuff - and even merely makes assumptions - then it pollutes not only our data, but the underpinnings of that data.

What if, say, Jupiter isn't where AI thinks it is? (I know, just a dumb example, but still...) And therefore all our subsequent calculations are wrong? Now we have to analyze and verify the AI's predictions in addition to our own work.
 
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Mukhtar said:
The glaring issues can maybe removed by AI to some extent.
This is way off topic for both this thread and this forum. Your original question has been answered. Thread closed.
 
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