Is it possible to obtain excess energy from a Townsend discharge?

[environes]

Let us assume a continuous flow of gas that can be ionized between the electrodes where an electric discharge is generated. According to the principle of conservation of energy, energy cannot be created or destroyed, but it can be transformed from one form to another with losses, e.g. in the form of heat.

Is it possible to have a configuration in which the avalanche of secondary electrons in a Towsnend discharge provides electric energy due to the effect of electron emission at an electrode that is bombarded by the avalanche of electrons and the electric energy received is greater than the energy put into the electric field accelerating the electrons? The energy surplus would, of course, come from the energy stored in gas.

Thank you in advance for your explanation.

 

[Drakkith]

I'm unfamiliar with Townsend discharge. Can I ask what energy is stored in the gas that is available for use by the device? Gas typically doesn't store energy in a format that can be used in this manner, as ionizing the gas requires a substantial input of energy in the first place.

 

[environes]

When talking about obtaining surplus energy from the energy stored in the gas, I mean the products of gas ionization, mainly free electrons. I am aware that gas ionization requires a significant energy input. However, I would like to expand on the point of view customarily taken on the issue of Townsend's discharge and therefore my post is speculative.

The problem of high ionization energy could be reduced by optimizing the discharge initiation environment, e.g. by switching from surface to volume discharge. In this transition, the Townsend discharge condition with an avalanche of electrons will be maintained.

Let me explain: the ionization energy of a gas is usually given per mole of that gas. Therefore, if we choose such conditions that the initiation of the discharge will take place with the smallest amount of gas possible (one way is, as I have already mentioned, the transition between different types of discharges, the other may be, for example, texturization of the electrode surface, where the irregularities will ensure a smaller contact surface of the electrode with the gas in surface discharge.

Maintaining the Townsend discharge condition, the current in the gas will increase rapidly. So if we go from a relatively small volume of ionized gas to a larger one, we will receive free electrons in an amount exceeding the original electrons. And here's my question: could the final amount of electrons provide more electrical energy than that supplied to maintain the electric field?

 

[Drakkith]

Ah, I see what you're saying now. Unfortunately I don't know the answer, as this is not something I'm very familiar with. Perhaps someone else here on PF can assist you. Best of luck to you.

 

[berkeman]

therefore my post is speculative.

Sorry, we do not allow speculation at PF. Thread is closed.

 

[Drakkith]

@environes please stand by while berkeman and I discuss this.
@berkeman see the report I've assigned to you.

 

[Drakkith]

@environes I've sent you a private message so that we can clarify what's being discussed here and make sure that it falls within the bounds of PF rules. Please respond when you can. Until then the thread will remain locked.