Is Jazz Usually Subtle or Was This Quartet an Exception?

[cristo]

When he had cashed up and was paying us, he pleaded with us to leave our respective bands and stay together, saying he would make us his house band and let us use his place to store all our gear and rehearse. Of course, he could have hired a DJ...

But like I said above, this isn't the type of DJ that Cyrus is thinking of. You're thinking of a wedding-type DJ; i.e. someone who plays similar music to the music you are talking about playing in a tavern. This is not a real DJ.. it is someone playing a few records. Under Cyrus' definition of a DJ, it is clear that such a person is a musician, who invests thousands of hours learning how to play his music.

 

[Cyrus]

At the risk of beating a dead horse, choosing the sequence of other people's music and synching turntables and CD players and MP3 players is trivial. The "talent" involved in reading crowd response and choosing music on the fly is something that real musicians have to do every single day. If you don't keep butts on bar-stools and feet on the dance-floor you won't get hired back. The difference is that DJs don't ever have to learn how to sing or play and instrument. Sequencing live music is even more complicated when you're hosting open-mike jams because you have to accommodate the styles/talents of drop-in musicians. I got paid well to do that because the bar made a whole lot more money when I was there. It's not charity work.

When a band canceled on him, the owner of the local hotel/bar called on really short notice and asked me to put something together. I got some close friends together (who all play in bands, still) including my sister, who is the vocalist in a band too, and we showed up with NO rehearsal to play that gig. We kept the place packed and the owner had the best night ever (confirmed by the lead bartender). When he had cashed up and was paying us, he pleaded with us to leave our respective bands and stay together, saying he would make us his house band and let us use his place to store all our gear and rehearse. Of course, he could have hired a DJ...

Regarding "talent", in elementary school and HS, I played trumpet and baritone and added French horn in HS. I played in regional and all-state bands during that time. I also played bass guitar and electric guitar in bands for extra money during HS, and played frat parties and private parties to help pay my way through college. Later, I took up banjo, percussion and keyboards, though guitar remained my main-stay. After you have spent a few thousand hours mastering a real musical instrument, then come back and tell me how hard it is to be a DJ. It's nice that you respect the work that they do, but the "instant gratification" aspect of their work is pretty galling to someone who has spent a lifetime mastering an instrument. DJs are entertainers, not musicians.

You are a lousy musician because you don't respect other people's work.

 

[turbo]

You are a lousy musician because you don't respect other people's work.

Personal insults are not a good way to settle an argument that you can't win.

 

[BWV]

In regards to the pig-ignorant statement of Jazz "requiring no talent", that view is not shared by any classical composer or performer I am aware of. Unless Cyrus thinks he is a better judge of talent than Stravinsky or Ravel or Debussy

Kind of Blue is the Led Zeppelin IV of Jazz

after that I would recommend for a beginner:

Louis Armstrong Plays WC Handy
TS Monk - Brilliant Corners
John Coltrane - Giant Steps
Miles Davis - In a Silent Way
Herbie Hancock - Head Hunters
Pat Metheny - Works

 

[chaoseverlasting]

Meh, Jazz is just a perversion of classical music. Takes no tallent.

Are you serious? Get your head outta your ***.

 

[WhoWee]

I have to go to Philadelphia later this week...can anyone recommend a nice Jazz club there?

 

[turbo]

I have to go to Philadelphia later this week...can anyone recommend a nice Jazz club there?

I Googled Philadelphia jazz clubs and got this page:

http://www.phillyjazz.org/clubs.html

As the person who wrote the page warns, club-owners can sometimes change genres on very short notice, so you'd be well-advised to call some clubs and figure out who's playing where. Though I used to travel to Philly frequently on business, I haven't done so in years and have no idea if there is still a thriving jazz scene there. Sorry for the lack of specifics.

 

[turbo]

In regards to the pig-ignorant statement of Jazz "requiring no talent", that view is not shared by any classical composer or performer I am aware of. Unless Cyrus thinks he is a better judge of talent than Stravinsky or Ravel or Debussy.

Anybody that thinks performing improvisational music requires no talent simply has no clue. I have had to hang it up due to chemical sensitivities (perfumes, etc) but played professionally at least part time for almost 40 years. The bands were fun, but the most fun (and the most demanding) was running open-mike jams. Musicians would show up with all kinds of songs they wanted to play and in various genres. It was billed as a weekly blues jam but it was certainly not uncommon for musicians to show up ready to play country, blues, rock, jazz, west-coast swing, etc. There's only one way to pull this off on guitar, and that is to become really proficient at barre chords and related scales so you can play in any key on demand.

 

[BWV]

Anybody that thinks performing improvisational music requires no talent simply has no clue.

Case in point, let your average conservatory student try to follow these changes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2kotK9FNEYU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2kotK9FNEYU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[WhoWee]

Case in point, let your average conservatory student try to follow these changes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2kotK9FNEYU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2kotK9FNEYU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

THANKS! I needed that!

 

[turbo]

Case in point, let your average conservatory student try to follow these changes:

Imagine the fun that ensues when an advanced jazz student or instructor shows up with chops like that AND you have no chart to follow - just your ears. I'd just grin, shake my head, and give them the stage. There was a bass-player, guitarist, and tenor sax player that sometimes would show up together and they had some pretty hot material worked out. I'd put down my guitar and either sit it out for a mini-concert of jazz or sit in on drums.

 

[Cyrus]

Are you serious? Get your head outta your ***.

Obviously, my comment was tongue in check for turbo. Have you been reading my posts? Hint: I wasn't serious when saying that.

 

[Cyrus]

Personal insults are not a good way to settle an argument that you can't win.

Neither is you saying something is easy that you've never tried.

 

[Cyrus]

Would you like a drum solo turbo?



Go ahead, I'd like you to do that for me, since it's so easy.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

Just cause something is difficult doesn't mean its impressive:

case in point:

Although I suppose some may find that impressive, lol!

 

[Cyrus]

Just cause something is difficult doesn't mean its impressive:

case in point:

Although I suppose some may find that impressive, lol!

I had to sit down in awe.

On a more serious note, Turbo thinks its easy. So easy in fact that 'he would be the best in the world if he tried'.

This kids pretty good:

 

[lisab]

Just cause something is difficult doesn't mean its impressive:

case in point:

Although I suppose some may find that impressive, lol!

 

[turbo]

I had to sit down in awe.

On a more serious note, Turbo thinks its easy. So easy in fact that 'he would be the best in the world if he tried'.

This kids pretty good:

You painted yourself into a corner, Cy. Now you're trying to Lie yourself out of it. Bring up your best DJ friends and their gear and let me familiarize myself with their equipment. I'll let them play with all my guitars and amps. At the end of a week, who can perform on whose equipment and acquit themselves more skillfully? If you think your DJ buddies can out-perform a professional guitarist in 7 days, you are delusional. Please catch a clue.

 

[Cyrus]

You painted yourself into a corner, Cy. Now you're trying to Lie yourself out of it. Bring up your best DJ friends and their gear and let me familiarize myself with their equipment. I'll let them play with all my guitars and amps. At the end of a week, who can perform on whose equipment and acquit themselves more skillfully? If you think your DJ buddies can out-perform a professional guitarist in 7 days, you are delusional. Please catch a clue.

What kind of nonsense is this, turbo. My 'best DJ friends', are not the best DJs in the world - and I never claimed they were. Your who can perform on whose equipment means jack squat. Unless YOU can perform BETTER than the best DJs in the world (as you claimed), you're talking out of your tooshey. You said, "I can play better than any of those DJs if I wanted to". The answer is NO YOU CANT. So instead of admitting it and respecting the work of fellow musicians, you cry oh they arent musicians. They just steal peoples music. How pathetic, turbo. Do you hear DJs saying, oh Jazz artists just bastardize classical music with all that random noise no one wants to hear. They work the classical artists out of a job! No, at least DJs show some respect. Why can't you do the same?

Your comments run along the lines of a guy who sees a painting in the museum that is modern art and complains that he could paint that if he wanted to also. The fact is, that guy does not have anything hanging in a museum, because he didnt and can't paint that same picture. Likewise, you can't play a turntable. What's worse, you have no conceptual understanding of what a DJ on a turntable can do. You think all DJs play like the one at your Tavern - they dont. The world is a lot bigger than the DJs you've seen in your local tavern.


Also, no one said they (DJs) would outperform you in a local tavern playing with bubba Mc.grub who used to know a guy from the beatles and play with the local piano teacher that brought down mrs. johnsons third grade class for some bikes while eating hamburgers and beer and improvising with live open mics ...AHHHHHHHH gasp for breath...and would get booed from the crowd and you have to earn your keep and there working us out of jobs, those bum DJS! (Have I missed anything?)

Now, can we do away with the nonsense analogies and stories?

 

[bassplayer142]

I listen to a lot of Jazz. My favorite stuff lies in the true early fusion era. Mahavishnu, Weather Report, RTF, Brand X and other bands. If your looking for more mellowed out Coltrane and Miles sound right. Mingus is really good too.

 

[turbo]

What kind of nonsense is this, turbo. My 'best DJ friends', are not the best DJs in the world - and I never claimed they were. Your who can perform on whose equipment means jack squat. Unless YOU can perform BETTER than the best DJs in the world (as you claimed), you're talking out of your tooshey. You said, "I can play better than any of those DJs if I wanted to". The answer is NO YOU CANT. So instead of admitting it and respecting the work of fellow musicians, you cry oh they arent musicians. They just steal peoples music. How pathetic, turbo. Do you hear DJs saying, oh Jazz artists just bastardize classical music with all that random noise no one wants to hear. They work the classical artists out of a job! No, at least DJs show some respect. Why can't you do the same?

I never said that your DJ friends are the best in the world, and I certainly wouldn't claim that I am the best guitarist in the world. I can state with absolute certainty that with very minimal time, I can do a better job as a DJ than any DJ can do as a guitarist. If you claim otherwise, I suggest that you ask them how they think that they would fare.

DJs are not musicians. To be a musician, you have to actually learn how to play an instrument, master it, and learn how to apply that knowledge to work with others and make a finished product. It is not enough to know how to make a few chords or to play a lead or two - if you are to perform live and be good at it, you have to have a large repertoire of moves and be able to execute them seamlessly.

I see that you have gone back to the position that you previously said you didn't really mean (bolded) that shows you don't really have a clue about performing arts. Playing improvisational music is demanding, and it is very apparent that you have never done so, nor do you have an informed viewpoint on it. Jazz is not a perversion of classical music, any more than rock or blues are. Music is evolutionary, and has to be viewed as such. You are a consumer, not a producer, and have a (conveniently) narrow perspective.

BTW, I know people who play classical music, including a classmate from college who spent his summers touring Europe and sitting in as a guest violinist in some of the finest orchestras. He didn't think jazz was noise, and he used to sit in with me and my friends when we played blues/rock/whatever. Your very narrow definitions of good/bad amount to nothing more than straw-man arguments, in which you can paint something in a negative light and then diss it. I played classical music, traditional music, marches, etc in HS, and liked all of it. The most fun I had in that period was playing tight, but improvisational music along the lines of the Tijuana Brass - another trumpet player, a baritone and tuba player wanted to do some ensemble work, and we worked up a nice set of tunes.

 

[Cyrus]

I can state with absolute certainty that with very minimal time, I can do a better job as a DJ than any DJ can do as a guitarist.

Ok, so what? You can get good at it quickly. You won't be great at it.

If you claim otherwise, I suggest that you ask them how they think that they would fare.

I never claimed jack squat about playing a guitar, in fact, I don't care about playing a Guitar. Do you understand?

DJs are not musicians. To be a musician, you have to actually learn how to play an instrument, master it, and learn how to apply that knowledge to work with others and make a finished product. It is not enough to know how to make a few chords or to play a lead or two - if you are to perform live and be good at it, you have to have a large repertoire of moves and be able to execute them seamlessly.

You are being willingly ignorant here. A DJ is not a radio. A RADIO would be something where the INPUT is the same as the OUTPUT.

A musician makes music. The sounds that go into the turn table are NOT the same sounds that come OUT of the turn table. There is a 'function' that changes the sounds and makes something new out of them. That's creating music. You're too dense to understand this.

I see that you have gone back to the position that you previously said you didn't really mean (bolded) that shows you don't really have a clue about performing arts. Playing improvisational music is demanding, and it is very apparent that you have never done so, nor do you have an informed viewpoint on it. Jazz is not a perversion of classical music, any more than rock or blues are. Music is evolutionary, and has to be viewed as such. You are a consumer, not a producer, and have a (conveniently) narrow perspective.

You're right. And DJ'ing is well established in the cannon of music for nearly 30 years now. Sorry, but you turbo-1 have little to no say in this matter. You can blindly and ignorantly think it's not making music, but the rest of the world does not hold that view. Have fun thinking otherwise - you're on your own.

BTW, I know people who play classical music, including a classmate from college who spent his summers touring Europe and sitting in as a guest violinist in some of the finest orchestras. He didn't think jazz was noise, and he used to sit in with me and my friends when we played blues/rock/whatever. Your very narrow definitions of good/bad amount to nothing more than straw-man arguments, in which you can paint something in a negative light and then diss it. I played classical music, traditional music, marches, etc in HS, and liked all of it. The most fun I had in that period was playing tight, but improvisational music along the lines of the Tijuana Brass - another trumpet player, a baritone and tuba player wanted to do some ensemble work, and we worked up a nice set of tunes.

I really don't care about these pointless stories anymore, please stop telling me then unless they are relevant.

You play in a small tavern for 40 years.
Your local high school teacher comes to that tavern.
Your friend tuned a guitar for a rock star.
You play live mic sessions.
Your friend in college plays jazz and classical.

Nothing to do with DJ'ing, but you insist on repeating these stories. You must think they qualify your views, they don't.

At this point were just going to go round and round in circles. I'm not going to waste any more posts, you're being a block head.

 

[turbo]

Cy, here's my suggestion. Why don't you quit aeronautical engineering and follow your passion. Enroll in Juilliard and sign up for all their DJ courses so you can become a pro.

 

[lisab]

You two remind me of https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=292225"...

 

[BWV]

Well this disc is DJs making new music. DJ Cam's remix of In a Silent Way is brilliant

 

[Cyrus]

Well this disc is DJs making new music. DJ Cam's remix of In a Silent Way is brilliant

Thanks for that find!

3jN3fVK6QMo[/youtube]

 

[Cyrus]

This one is also good!

hGMMsCB3VbY[/youtube]

 

[Cyrus]

1LNyyd0JXKM&feature=related[/youtube] [url]F9MjQgMSjIQ&feature=related[/youtube]

 

[WhoWee]

Here's an interesting source.

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/

I found a couple of really nice radio stations while driving.