Is Legalizing Marijuana Worth the Risks?

[Moonbear]

I'm not going to do the math, but it seems as if the government could more than make up for such costs simply by placing high sales taxes on the harmful substances in question.

Hmmm...maybe. But I don't know for certain. Taxes on cigarettes and alcohol don't seem to cover the cost of treating illnesses related to using those. People won't even allow extra taxes on junk food that is legal and we know leads to health problems when consumed in excess. I guess there would be a fine line between how much you could tax it and when it becomes more profitable to sell it illegally without paying tax as to whether this would work. Then again, we might have an easier time catching the smugglers and dealers if the IRS was going after them instead of the DEA.

 

[humanino]

I'm not going to do the math, but it seems as if the government could more than make up for such costs simply by placing high sales taxes on the harmful substances in question.

Yes, they can do the math, and that is why they might only tax it, as they do with alcohol. Besides, it keeps the people shouting the stupid argument "I'm free to spoil my life" have exactly what they deserve.

 

[gerben]

Yes, they can do the math, and that is why they might only tax it, as they do with alcohol. Besides, it keeps the people shouting the stupid argument "I'm free to spoil my life" have exactly what they deserve.

I think it would be wonderful if they would one day really try to legalise people's choises, and discover how this would solve all the monstrous problems they (the government, etc.) have created by this absurd prohibition.

(I think the present day situation could almost be called a kind of civil war)

 

[Kerrie]

While I was driving home today, and thinking about PF as I always do, it occurred to me there is another reason for the government to stop people from doing things to harm themselves...the rising cost of health insurance! The more insurance companies have to pay for the stupid things people do to themselves, the more we all pay in premiums. Alternatively, if these people don't have insurance or if insurance carriers just refused to cover "self-inflicted" injury, then it's likely the hospitals will be the ones to get stiffed, so then we pay the added expense in rising cost of hospital stays or doctor visits. In the end, we all wind up paying for their stupidity.

the rising costs are due to malpractice insurance and the amount of lawsuits americans file. i know an emergency room doctor who pays 100K annually for his malpractice insurance. also, you have the huge profits of the pharmaceutical companies that the insurance premiums have to cover. and don't forget the mounting problem of the uninsured who are treated regardless and then never pay the bill-guess who gets stuck with those costs down the road? those paying the insurance premiums...

those smoking marijuana are a lot less likely to injure themselves then someone who is intoxicated from alcohol. if anything, someone high has the tendency to do nothing but think. anyone hurting themselves from that is in rare form.

 

[Evo]

Funny, when I was younger everyone smoked marijuana and I could always tell when someone had been smoking because their ability to pay attention was so impaired. We nicknamed one guy that smoked all the time "snap" because he had no snap (attention span).

People that smoke don't realize how their coordination, reflexes and response time are all diminished when they smoke. They think they are reacting normally.

I've smoked and I personally don't like the feeling, I prefer to be alert.

I don't consider it any more harmful than alcohol, but it should be used like alcohol. If you drink during the day or while you are working or driving, you are considered to have a problem. Smoking marijuana is no different.

 

[humanino]

If you drink during the day or while you are working or driving, you are considered to have a problem. Smoking marijuana is no different.

When in Amsterdam, you can encounter at 9am a bank officer guy well dressed and carrying an expansive suit case, probably full of several 0s numbers, yet smoking pot.
I wish if this guys misplaces a zero, that is in advantage to the the customer

 

[Evo]

When in Amsterdam, you can encounter at 9am a bank officer guy well dressed and carrying an expansive suit case, probably full of several 0s numbers, yet smoking pot.
I wish if this guys misplaces a zero, that is in advantage to the the customer

Their accuracy might not be affected, it just takes them twice as long to figure it out.

Some people say it just makes them feel "mellow", well I'm looking at them and they may feel "mellow" but they appear to be "sloooow". I'm always asked "how can you tell I've been smoking?" Believe me, it's not hard.

 

[Loren Booda]

I scored a perfect 800 on my Math SAT while stoned back when they were more difficult (1976), but I also did poorly on my Advanced Placement tests under the influence. I was an addict. SATs were rote tests, while APs (even math) required an essay.

 

[humanino]

You know what : last year of high school in France, last trimester did not matter for my admission. I knew I would get in, I only needed to get my baccalaureat (which is did with honor). Anyway, I wanted to experiment that "under weed, your imagination is multiplied". So I wrote my three last philosophy dissertations stoned. I got three 17/20, and I think the teacher never gave beter. When I reread those today, not only is this great, I used words I don't even know and when I check them in the dictionnary, not only do they mean something really, they exactly mean what I wanted to express at this point. Yet there is a flaw. Those dissertations, I had to rewrite them after the weed effect was gone, because they were full of orthographical mistakes. Even though it liberates ones imagination, to me it illutrates the fact that ones attention is down.

 

[Kerrie]

Alcohol slows you down and impairs one just as much, if not even more so. More people die from the effects of alcohol or admitted to the hospital then by marijuana (drunk driving, alcohol poisoning, violence activated by drunkeness). I really don't think we can pass a harsher judgement on it when a LEGAL substance can and does far more damage. If it's legal, it should be regulated definitely as much as alcohol with age restrictions, taxes, and places to purchase. Also, there are many marijuana users arrested and clogging up the jail systems, and your tax dollars are paying for it. Do we continue down our path costing all this money for a "problem" that will most likely never go away? Or do we get smart, legalize it, make some money and utilize tax dollars for crimes that deserve more attention and money?

 

[Evo]

Loren & humanino, yes, I have also noticed it has no adverse affects on knowledge/intelligence. For me alcohol is the same. Some of my most brilliant presentations were done while I was intoxicated, although I wouldn't have been able to pass a field sobriety test.

 

[Evo]

Alcohol slows you down and impairs one just as much, if not even more so. More people die from the effects of alcohol or admitted to the hospital then by marijuana (drunk driving, alcohol poisoning, violence activated by drunkeness). I really don't think we can pass a harsher judgement on it when a LEGAL substance can and does far more damage. If it's legal, it should be regulated definitely as much as alcohol with age restrictions, taxes, and places to purchase. Also, there are many marijuana users arrested and clogging up the jail systems, and your tax dollars are paying for it. Do we continue down our path costing all this money for a "problem" that will most likely never go away? Or do we get smart, legalize it, make some money and utilize tax dollars for crimes that deserve more attention and money?

I agree, it should be treated like alcohol.

 

[Gokul43201]

Some of my most brilliant presentations were done while I was intoxicated, although I wouldn't have been able to pass a field sobriety test.

Wooohoooo ...who'd have thunk !

'Evo the Wise', the mentor formerly known as Wild Thing !

 

[humanino]

Does that mean a mentor position is now available ?
Well, not for me in that case.

 

[ray b]

the real effects of the pot are way less
then the real effects of the laws against it

btw stupid laws against pot have not had any real effect
on limitimg its use by kids

with stupid laws like 3 strikes
people are doing life for pot

just laws are needed to promote respect for justice
decriminalization is the ONLY rational option
and very far over due

drug tests are a violation of rights
esp in pot cases as there is no relationship to imparement
as no known test will tell if someone is high
just that they smoked sometime in the past month or more

 

[nrqed]

I don't think marijuana is necessarily bad for you if you do it once in a while. I smoke marijuana almost once every couple of days, and it doesent really effect me at all. I have grades in the 80% range, and will be going to university next year for engineering, i also have a <A TITLE="Click for more information about job" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||job|AA1VDw">job</A>, and it doesent effect me there either. It really let's me relax, clear my mind up, ease the tension, you know...just letting go of reality for an hour and zooming off elsewhere, the high is just temporary, and your back to your normal self in an hour or 2, this is one of the main reasons why so many people choose cannibus over other drugs, its cheap, safe, effective, and the best part, its not even very addictive!

You prove once more how self centered and "blip blip blip" (I am censoring myself) marijuana users are.

Recreational marijuana users are people who don'tt care if they are making drug traffickers rich because they care only about themselves.

We keep reading stories around here about farmers who live in fear because of drug traffickers using their properties to grow drugs. But marijuana users are so ******* self centered that they don't give a damn about where their money goes. They just think about themselves.

It's hard to imagine someone who is more of an ******* than a recreational marijuana user who puts money in the pockets of organized criminals.

When confronted with this, they are too hypocrites to admit how selfish they are. They change the subject by saying "but that's why we should decriminalize".

If marijuana users were the least honest (I know, I can keep dreaming!). they would say "yes, I give money to criminals because I enjoy it. And, by the way, we should decriminalize because I think I deserve to be rewarded for doing what I do". But they are way too hypocrites to admit that.



Pat

 

[Kerrie]

You prove once more how self centered and "blip blip blip" (I am censoring myself) marijuana users are.

Recreational marijuana users are people who don'tt care if they are making drug traffickers rich because they care only about themselves.

We keep reading stories around here about farmers who live in fear because of drug traffickers using their properties to grow drugs. But marijuana users are so ******* self centered that they don't give a damn about where their money goes. They just think about themselves.

It's hard to imagine someone who is more of an ******* than a recreational marijuana user who puts money in the pockets of organized criminals.

When confronted with this, they are too hypocrites to admit how selfish they are. They change the subject by saying "but that's why we should decriminalize".

If marijuana users were the least honest (I know, I can keep dreaming!). they would say "yes, I give money to criminals because I enjoy it. And, by the way, we should decriminalize because I think I deserve to be rewarded for doing what I do". But they are way too hypocrites to admit that.



Pat

marijuana users wouldn't be giving money to criminals if it was legal and regulated either. i have known many people who use alcohol that were also dishonest, selfish and self centered.

 

[Zantra]

You know as a smoker (of ciggarrettes) I've had to explain my habit a billion times, especially living in California. But you know what? I don't make excuses. I don't dodge the facts or truth of what I'm doing, or the dangers I'm risking by smoking. I'm aware of it and I proceed in spite of it. But I don't dodge, lie, or pretend ciggarrettes are something they aren't, which a lot of smokers do. And pot smokers. My view on it is if you do, cool- peace and love and all that jazz, but don't try and sell me on it like I'm a congressman trying to pass anti-drug legislation. It is what it is, and the facts aren't really in dispute. So just shut up, fess up, do it, and move on. Otherwise you end up sounding like a crackhead trying to explain why they "need" their next fix.

Personally, I wouldn't smoke it even if it was legal.

 

[Gokul43201]

Recreational marijuana users are people who don'tt care if they are making drug traffickers rich because they care only about themselves.

And the common folk who don't switch off lights at home every possible chance, and drive instead of walking, cycling or riding a bus, are people who don't care if they are making the big, energy executives rich, because they care only about themselves.

 

[gerben]

You prove once more how self centered and "blip blip blip" (I am censoring myself) marijuana users are.

Recreational marijuana users are people who don'tt care if they are making drug traffickers rich because they care only about themselves.

What is bad about that? If you buy something from someone you make the seller a little richer. That is the way trading works...

We keep reading stories around here about farmers who live in fear because of drug traffickers using their properties to grow drugs. But marijuana users are so ******* self centered that they don't give a damn about where their money goes. They just think about themselves.

Who do you think the farmers are affraid of? They are affraid of drug squads, policemen! They are not affraid of drug users, often the farmers could not even live decently if they did not grow it.
(By the way those farmers are not often growing marihuana, but more often coca)

It's hard to imagine someone who is more of an ******* than a recreational marijuana user who puts money in the pockets of organized criminals.

When confronted with this, they are too hypocrites to admit how selfish they are. They change the subject by saying "but that's why we should decriminalize".

That is not changing the subject, that is pointing out what the problem is. The problem is that some people want to use marihuana and that others say "No, you are not allowed to!". Prohibition causes all the problems.

If marijuana users were the least honest (I know, I can keep dreaming!). they would say "yes, I give money to criminals because I enjoy it. And, by the way, we should decriminalize because I think I deserve to be rewarded for doing what I do". But they are way too hypocrites to admit that.
Pat

They just want to use marihuana, they do not want to give anyone money and it should be decriminalized because it is ridiculous to deny people the use of some plant.

 

[Zantra]

And the common folk who don't switch off lights at home every possible chance, and drive instead of walking, cycling or riding a bus, are people who don't care if they are making the big, energy executives rich, because they care only about themselves.

See that's just it. The issue isn't about who makes the money, it's about the kids using drugs before they are old enough or mature enough to make an informed decision. Or using it solely due to peer pressure. Sure if you're 30 years old and a pothead, more power to you, but if you're 15? how about 12? 9? What age is too young? Any substance that alters your sense of reality is affecting your brain in some way, no matter how much potheads try and deny it. And if you're smoking pot at 10, by 15 you'll be using mescaline, pcp, heroin or crack. And you can't say "oh they know better" because if the kid doesn't have the brains to say no to pot, then he's only one step away from snorting stuff because he doesn't want his friends to think he's "a tard" or "lame"

question to all you smokers: one day you'll have kids- you going to let them smoke pot? if not, are you going to hide your use from them? If so, why? I guess I just see things a little differently since I'm a parent.

 

[Zantra]

They just want to use marihuana, they do not want to give anyone money and it should be decriminalized because it is ridiculous to deny people the use of some plant.

Some people might say it's ridiculous to have to risk at the very minimum, lung cancer, mood swings, low sperm count,jail time,job loss, and spend enough money to make ciggarrettes look like a cheap habit- just to TEMPORARILY solve your woes or for kicks Not to mention the fact that like any substance, the more you use it, the less potent to your body it beconmes, as it adapts, so you have to spend even MORE money just to get the same benefit (and I know this as I know some people who spend gobs of money to get very expensive, very potent stuff just to feel normal, because dirt weed won't cut it anymore)..But that's just some people I guess...

 

[decibel]

Any substance that alters your sense of reality is affecting your brain in some way, no matter how much potheads try and deny it. And if you're smoking pot at 10, by 15 you'll be using mescaline, pcp, heroin or crack.

hmmm...That IS true, but only for some people, for me, no. I'v been smoking it for 5 years, and the only "drug" i'v ever tried and will try is marijuana, nothing else, never. I would NEVER EVER do anything like heroid or crack, that's just not cool.

 

[hypnagogue]

Sure if you're 30 years old and a pothead, more power to you, but if you're 15? how about 12? 9? What age is too young?

Sounds like a great reason to legalize marijuana, so its distribution can be regulated and restricted to adults only.

And you can't say "oh they know better" because if the kid doesn't have the brains to say no to pot

Choosing to smoke marijuana is not a matter of not having brains-- when's the last time you chided someone who went to a bar for not having brains? Alcohol is potentially physiologically addictive, after all, while I don't believe marijuana has ever been shown to be anything more than psychologically addictive.

In fact, if there's any drug habit you could say requires a complete failure of rational brain operation, it would have to be smoking cigarettes, not smoking marijuana or even drinking alcohol. (Don't take offense, I'm hooked on 'em too.) At least with marijuana you get some interesting benefits to go with the costs. In general, I think the only drugs that should be strongly discouraged are the physiologically addictive, highly destructive kind-- heroin, cocaine, and yes, tobacco. On the other hand, a lot of people might benefit from exploring the subjective spaces opened up by limited use of non-addictive drugs, such as marijuana or even (gasp) mescalin.

I can't speak for 10 year olds, but I know more than a few people who were apparently brain-deficient enough to try marijuana at around 14 or 15. I don't know anyone who ever even considered doing something like heroin or crack. Contrary to sensationalist caricatures, even young teenagers tend to have some sense of what they can get away with trying and what is best to avoid like the plague.

 

[Smurf]

In a society where the government doesn't pay for your medical costs in any way, that'd be true, but in the USA, the govt pays for a lot of your medical care, so every person who fuks up their own body is an expense to the govt, and every tax-paying citizen, who funds the government.

Or even worse, in a country with Socialized Medicare, like Canada.
but I hear this same arguemnt daily about Tobaco and Alcohol. I think there need to be restrictions that say they won't pay for self-inflicted illnesses.

 

[check]

Or even worse, in a country with Socialized Medicare, like Canada.
but I hear this same arguemnt daily about Tobaco and Alcohol. I think there need to be restrictions that say they won't pay for self-inflicted illnesses.

I’m going to have to strongly disagree with this, Smurf. For example: If someone develops lung cancer, the gov’t could claim that it’s because they smoke and thus, not pay for treatment. Although smoking does significantly increase the risk of lung cancer, it might not have been the cause in all instances even if the person who has developed lung cancer is a smoker.

The better alternative is to charge taxes on things like tobacco products and (unfortunately) alcohol that would cover the cost of treating diseases linked to the use and abuse of these substances. Though this would, in effect, ‘punish’ people who don’t develop any illnesses from the use of these substances, it doesn’t prevent people from receiving treatment.

Now, I know that there are already huge taxes on cigarettes. They’re at almost $8/pack I think in Ontario… however, I’m pretty sure income from these taxes doesn’t all go into the healthcare system (or anti-smoking campaigns). There needs to be a reform of how that revenue is spent.

 

[Evo]

I have to side with Zantra here.

Make two columns. One with the positives of smoking marijuana and one with the negatives.

Which column has more entries?

 

[Gokul43201]

Make two columns. One with the positives of smoking marijuana and one with the negatives.

Which column has more entries?

Do the same with smoking, drinking, watching porn, etc.

 

[hypnagogue]

Make two columns. One with the positives of smoking marijuana and one with the negatives.

Which column has more entries?

For sustained / long term / heavy marijuana use, the costs certainly outweigh the benefits. For infrequent / moderate / responsible use, depending on the mentality of the user, it is likely that that the benefits outweigh the costs.

 

[decibel]

Do the same with smoking, drinking, watching porn, etc.

good point although i think the marijuana column would be more of even on both sides considering that it is used for medicinal purposes, and there hasent been one case ever documented of someone dying of marijuana.