Is math based on observations?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of whether mathematics is based on observations, exploring the relationship between axioms, common sense, and empirical reality. Participants delve into philosophical implications, the nature of mathematical truths, and the historical development of mathematical concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Philosophical exploration
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that axioms are chosen based on common sense, which is derived from observations of the environment, suggesting that mathematics is influenced by empirical reality.
  • Others contend that while the application of mathematics to the world is based on observation, the mathematics itself is not dependent on empirical truths, as axioms can be chosen independently of reality.
  • One participant emphasizes that axioms are self-evident truths that do not require observational proof, using the example of 2+2=4 to illustrate that mathematical truths exist independently of physical objects.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of logic in mathematics, with some participants questioning how logical correctness is determined and whether the premises can be false yet still yield valid arguments.
  • Some participants reference historical figures like Russell and Wittgenstein, discussing their contributions to the philosophy of mathematics and the implications of their work on the understanding of mathematical truths.
  • One viewpoint suggests that mathematics has evolved from being closely tied to observations (like geometry) to becoming a more abstract discipline that exists independently of the real world.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between mathematics and observations, with no consensus reached on whether mathematics is fundamentally based on empirical reality or if it exists independently of it.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments hinge on the definitions of axioms and the nature of mathematical truths, with participants acknowledging that the discussion involves complex philosophical considerations that may not have clear resolutions.

  • #31
So, when you say Euclidean mathematics, you just mean mathematics.
 
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  • #32
Matt: Is this is a question that you ask me, or what ?
 
  • #33
The very fact that the totality of our sense experience is such that by means of thinking ... it can be put in order, this fact is one which leaves us in awe, but which we shall never understand. One may say "the eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility". Immanual Kant

"The miracle of appropriateness of the language of mathematics for the formulation of the laws of physics is a wonderful gift which we neither understand nor deserve." Wigner

"At this point an enigma presents itself which in all
ages has agitated inquiring minds. How can it be that
mathematics, being after all a product of human thought
which is independent of experience, is so admirably
appropriate to the objects of reality? Is human reason,
then, without experience, merely by taking thought, able
to fathom the properties of real things?

In my opinion the answer to this question is breifly
this: As far as the laws of mathematics refer to
reality, they are not certain; and as far as they
are certain, they do not refer to reality."
Address to the Prussian Academy of Science 1921, Dr. Einstein
 
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