Is $\mathcal{A}$ a $\sigma$-algebra over $M$?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining whether various collections of subsets, denoted as $\mathcal{A}$, qualify as $\sigma$-algebras over the set $M=\{1,2,3,4\}$. Participants explore the properties that must be satisfied for a collection to be a $\sigma$-algebra, including the presence of the set $M$, the inclusion of complements, and the closure under countable unions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that the collection $\mathcal{A}=\{\emptyset, \{1,2\}, \{3,4\}\}$ is not a $\sigma$-algebra because it does not contain $M$.
  • Another participant confirms that the collection $\mathcal{A}=\{\emptyset, M, \{1\}, \{2,3,4\}, \{1,2\}, \{3,4\}\}$ satisfies the first two properties but questions whether the union of all elements needs to be checked.
  • Participants discuss the sufficiency of checking unions of pairs of elements instead of all possible sequences, with one explaining that this approach is valid due to the associative property of unions.
  • There is a clarification on how to calculate the number of ways to choose pairs from a set of six elements, leading to a discussion about the correct combinatorial formula.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the correctness of their reasoning regarding the properties of $\sigma$-algebras, prompting further validation from others.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on whether all proposed collections are $\sigma$-algebras, as participants present differing views and calculations regarding the properties of each collection. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the necessity of checking unions of all elements.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need to verify the closure under unions and the implications of including the empty set and the entire set $M$. There are unresolved questions about the completeness of the checks performed on the collections.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

We have the set $M=\{1,2,3,4\}$. I want to check if the following are $\sigma$-algebras over $M$.
  1. $\mathcal{A}=\{\emptyset, \{1,2\}, \{3,4\}\}$
  2. $\mathcal{A}=\{\emptyset, M, \{1\}, \{2,3,4\}, \{1,2\}, \{3,4\}\}$
  3. $\mathcal{A}=\{\emptyset, M, \{3\}, \{1,2,4\}\}$
  4. $\mathcal{A}=\{\emptyset, M, \{1\}, \{2\}, \{1,2\}, \{3,4\}, \{2,3,4\}, \{1,2,4\}, \{1,3,4\}\}$

$\mathcal{A}$ is a $\sigma$-algebra over $M$ if the following hold:
  • $M$ is in $\mathcal{A}$.
  • If $A$ is in $\mathcal{A}$, then so is the complement of $A$.
  • If $A_n$ is a sequence of elements of $\mathcal{A}$, then the union of the $A_n$s is in $\mathcal{A}$.
I have done the following:

  1. $\mathcal{A}=\{\emptyset, \{1,2\}, \{3,4\}\}$
    • $M \notin \mathcal{A}$.

    Therefore, $\mathcal{A}$ is not a $\sigma$-algebra over $M$.
  2. $\mathcal{A}=\{\emptyset, M, \{1\}, \{2,3,4\}, \{1,2\}, \{3,4\}\}$
    • $M \in \mathcal{A}$.
    • $\emptyset \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \emptyset^c=M\in \mathcal{A}$
      $M \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow M^c=\emptyset\in \mathcal{A}$
      $\{1\}\in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{1\}^c=\{2,3,4\}\in \mathcal{A}$
      $\{2,3,4\} \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{2,3,4\}^c=\{1\}\in \mathcal{A}$
      $\{1,2\} \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{1,2\}^c=\{3,4\}\in \mathcal{A}$
      $\{3,4\} \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{3,4\}^c=\{1,2\}\in \mathcal{A}$
    • Do we have to check if the union of all the elements of $\mathcal{A}$ is again in $\mathcal{A}$ ?
  3. $\mathcal{A}=\{\emptyset, M, \{3\}, \{1,2,4\}\}$
    • $M\in \mathcal{A}$.
    • $\emptyset \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \emptyset^c=M\in \mathcal{A}$
      $M \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow M^c=\emptyset\in \mathcal{A}$
      $\{3\} \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{3\}^c=\{1,2,4\}\in \mathcal{A}$
      $\{1,2,4\} \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{1,2,4\}^c=\{3\}\in \mathcal{A}$
    • Do we have to check if the union of all the elements of $\mathcal{A}$ is again in $\mathcal{A}$ ?
  4. $\mathcal{A}=\{\emptyset, M, \{1\}, \{2\}, \{1,2\}, \{3,4\}, \{2,3,4\}, \{1,2,4\}, \{1,3,4\}\}$
    • $M \in \mathcal{A}$.
    • $\emptyset \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \emptyset^c=M\in \mathcal{A}$
      $M \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow M^c=\emptyset\in \mathcal{A}$
      $\{1\}\in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{1\}^c=\{2,3,4\}\in \mathcal{A}$
      $\{2\} \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{2\}^c=\{1,3,4\}\in \mathcal{A}$
      $\{1,2\} \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{1,2\}^c=\{3,4\}\in \mathcal{A}$
      $\{3,4\}\in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{3,4\}^c=\{1,2\}\in \mathcal{A}$
      $\{2,3,4\} \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{2,3,4\}^c=\{1\}\in \mathcal{A}$
      $\{1,2,4\} \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{1,2,4\}^c=\{3\}\notin \mathcal{A}$

    So, $\mathcal{A}$ is not a $\sigma$-algebra.
Is what I have done correct? Could you give me a hint how we could check the last property? (Wondering)
 
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mathmari said:
[*] Do we have to check if the union of all the elements of $\mathcal{A}$ is again in $\mathcal{A}$ ?

Is what I have done correct? Could you give me a hint how we could check the last property? (Wondering)

Hey mathmari! (Smile)

Yep. It's all correct.

To check the last property formally we need to check every sequence of elements.
With 6 elements that is $2^6=64$ possible sequences. (Sweating)

However, it suffices if we check every combination of 2 elements.
We can break up the union of a sequence of n elements into a series of unions of 2 elements after all.
With 6 elements that is 6 x 5 = 30 possible sequences.
Furthermore, combinations that contain $\varnothing$ or $M$ trivially satisfy the requirement.
So that leaves us with 4 x 3 = 12 combinations to verify.
 
I like Serena said:
However, it suffices if we check every combination of 2 elements.
We can break up the union of a sequence of n elements into a series of unions of 2 elements after all.

Why does this suffice to check every combination of 2 elements? (Wondering)
I like Serena said:
With 6 elements that is 6 x 5 = 30 possible sequences.

How do we get that number of possible sequences? I got stuck right now. (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
Why does this suffice to check every combination of 2 elements?

Let's take a look at the sequence $(A_1, A_2, A_3, ..., A_n)$.
Then we need that $A_1\cup A_2\cup A_3\cup ...\cup A_n \in \mathcal{A}$ yes?

Or written otherwise that $((((A_1\cup A_2)\cup A_3)\cup ...)\cup A_n) \in \mathcal{A}$.
But we also need that $A_1\cup A_2\in\mathcal A$, since that's also a possible sequence.
Every parenthesized expression of effectively 2 elements must be in $\mathcal A$.

In other words, if we pick each combination of 2 elements and verify that it's in $\mathcal A$, it follows that each sequence that is built from more than 2 elements is also in $\mathcal A$.

mathmari said:
How do we get that number of possible sequences? I got stuck right now.

In how many ways can we pick 2 elements from $\mathcal A$ if it has 6 elements? (Wondering)
 
I like Serena said:
Let's take a look at the sequence $(A_1, A_2, A_3, ..., A_n)$.
Then we need that $A_1\cup A_2\cup A_3\cup ...\cup A_n \in \mathcal{A}$ yes?

Or written otherwise that $((((A_1\cup A_2)\cup A_3)\cup ...)\cup A_n) \in \mathcal{A}$.
But we also need that $A_1\cup A_2\in\mathcal A$, since that's also a possible sequence.
Every parenthesized expression of effectively 2 elements must be in $\mathcal A$.

In other words, if we pick each combination of 2 elements and verify that it's in $\mathcal A$, it follows that each sequence that is built from more than 2 elements is also in $\mathcal A$.

I got it! (Nerd)
I like Serena said:
Furthermore, combinations that contain $\varnothing$ or $M$ trivially satisfy the requirement.

We use here the fact that $\emptyset \cup S=S$ and $M\cup S=M$, for any set $S$, right? (Wondering)
So, we have the following:

mathmari said:
2. $\mathcal{A}=\{\emptyset, M, \{1\}, \{2,3,4\}, \{1,2\}, \{3,4\}\}$
  • $M \in \mathcal{A}$.
  • $\emptyset \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \emptyset^c=M\in \mathcal{A}$
    $M \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow M^c=\emptyset\in \mathcal{A}$
    $\{1\}\in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{1\}^c=\{2,3,4\}\in \mathcal{A}$
    $\{2,3,4\} \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{2,3,4\}^c=\{1\}\in \mathcal{A}$
    $\{1,2\} \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{1,2\}^c=\{3,4\}\in \mathcal{A}$
    $\{3,4\} \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{3,4\}^c=\{1,2\}\in \mathcal{A}$

$\{1\}\cup \{2,3,4\}=M\in \mathcal{A}$
$\{1\}\cup \{1,2\}=\{1,2\}\in \mathcal{A}$
$\{1\}\cup \{3,4\}=\{1,3,4\}\notin \mathcal{A}$

Therefore, $\mathcal{A}$ is not a $\sigma$-algebra.
mathmari said:
3. $\mathcal{A}=\{\emptyset, M, \{3\}, \{1,2,4\}\}$
  • $M\in \mathcal{A}$.
  • $\emptyset \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \emptyset^c=M\in \mathcal{A}$
    $M \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow M^c=\emptyset\in \mathcal{A}$
    $\{3\} \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{3\}^c=\{1,2,4\}\in \mathcal{A}$
    $\{1,2,4\} \in \mathcal{A} \rightarrow \{1,2,4\}^c=\{3\}\in \mathcal{A}$
  • Do we have to check if the union of all the elements of $\mathcal{A}$ is again in $\mathcal{A}$ ?

$\{3\}\cup \{1,2,4\}=M\in \mathcal{A}$

So, $\mathcal{A}$ is a $\sigma$-algebra. Is everything correct? (Wondering)

I like Serena said:
In how many ways can we pick 2 elements from $\mathcal A$ if it has 6 elements? (Wondering)

Aren't there $\binom{6}{2}=\frac{6!}{2!\cdot 4!}=\frac{4!\cdot 5\cdot 6}{2\cdot 4!}=5\cdot 3=15$ ways? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
We use here the fact that $\emptyset \cup S=S$ and $M\cup S=M$, for any set $S$, right?

Yep.
And actually we also have $S\cup S=S$ for any set $S$. (Nerd)

mathmari said:
Is everything correct?

Yep. (Nod)

mathmari said:
Aren't there $\binom{6}{2}=\frac{6!}{2!\cdot 4!}=\frac{4!\cdot 5\cdot 6}{2\cdot 4!}=5\cdot 3=15$ ways?

Indeed.
As I wrote it, I took 6 choices for the 1st element and 5 choices for the 2nd element, giving us 6 x 5 = 30 ways.
Using $S\cup T=T\cup S$, we can reduce that by a factor 2 giving the 15 ways that you found. (Mmm)
 
I like Serena said:
Yep.
And actually we also have $S\cup S=S$ for any set $S$. (Nerd)
Yep. (Nod)
Indeed.
As I wrote it, I took 6 choices for the 1st element and 5 choices for the 2nd element, giving us 6 x 5 = 30 ways.
Using $S\cup T=T\cup S$, we can reduce that by a factor 2 giving the 15 ways that you found. (Mmm)

I understand! Thank you so much! (Mmm)
 

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