Is Memory the Key to Disproving the Existence of God?

[Garth]

God, the daughter of little green trinkies, created the universe last night. As proof, can you show me the night before last? I didn't think so.

You are free to make that choice in answer to those questions, others may choose otherwise.

But as Uncle Albert said, "What really interests me is whether God had any choice in the creation of the world.” (A.E.)

Garth

 

[TENYEARS]

Uncle Albert was being nice, god had no choice except the choices we make if of course you really consider these things as choices. If I go back in time to the beging of this post and replay it a 1000 times do you think the outcome would be any different? Yet does not my senssory input get analyzed at every moment to make the best possible choice my organism can make with it's surrounding environment. Life is a choiceless choice which can happen no other way. I am cheating though, my knowledge came to me before this deduction using external examples. I have seen the god of mosses and yet I am a fool just like you who struggles to understand my destiny. How can this be? I can see the future the thing you debate so greatly and yet my life is turned upside down. I have understood the creation of the universe and that which all things are made and yet I have no nobel prize. I experince one thing which no one may ever own, certainty in the midst of uncertainty. Sometimes to understand you must walk completely away from everything only to return to find the answer, everywhere.

 

[Garth]

TENYEARS - Uncle Albert was being nice to whom?

But as he said, "I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details." (A.E.)

Garth

 

[Prometheus]

But as Uncle Albert said, "What really interests me is whether God had any choice in the creation of the world.” (A.E.)

Garth

I did not read this before. I think that it is an excellent statement.

 

[ballooza]

Ey, GlassDragon...
tell me more about this mirror theory, please

 

[juju]

Hi,

Maybe the universe is just a school we need to graduate from before seeing the bigger picture. To grauate we need to understand the school.

Anyway I think the universe is a form of holistic chaos. Everything influences everything else forming local and global attractor states. Space/time is fractal.

juju

 

[brandon.irwin]

would he need a memory if he always knew what WILL happen?

Why would god need a memory? Wouldn't you only need a memory to know things that already happened. What if god always knew what WILL happen rather than what has happened? In that case, would he need a memory since everything that happens is already known in his eyes? From there, I think it probably is just semantics.

If god knew everything at the creation, then it is now a set system. Now, does having a set system contradict the rules?

"2. It is all-powerful and all knowing."
God will know all by knowing what will happen. Since he decided how the set system will be, does this make him all powerfull? If it was his choice, I would think so.

"3. It controls all reality including the laws of matter or nature."
If he made this set system, then yes...this would be true. He decided the laws and how he would control reality.

"4. It has always existed."
Yes, He could have created the system after already existing.

"1. It has a personality or consciousness."
I think we would have to know the meaning/purpose of life to know this one

Now, can one believe in evolution and God? Of course!

 

[XxFREEofFILTHxX]

If God the creator of all things created us with a limit to our logic reasoning, what makes you think you have it figured out? you know well that our system when applied to something greater, cannot define it because it is the higher that tell us what human logic is. you think that the human logic that we use can be applied to God, when well infact we don't understant this world itself. With that i conclude the fault in human logic, which you use against the one who created it. but then again i am using human logic to conclude this...which further expresses my point in the fault of human logic and how irreliable it is, when you think you have it figured out.

 

[XxFREEofFILTHxX]

God again does not depend on any Human thought or any Human system for him to be,...period! Einstien might have been a genius but he is no different than any of us, he still uses logic. It doesn't matter what he says nor i, because i do not understand the supreme truth either and it is even more ignorant and obsurd to have an idea of God when this is true

 

[selfAdjoint]

Statements of belief should not be part of a rational discussion. Your point that God, as usually defined, is bigger than human beings (I believe the book of Job shows him making that very point) is taken. But then the universe, or even the solar system is bigger than human beings, which does not make cosmology and celestial mechanics foolish enterprises.

 

[stunner5000pt]

I try attacking the claim of god himself

Let's say that god exists

this is given from the sources given to us from the books such as the Quran, the Bible, and so on.

The reliability of these sources is questionable

The mere fact that these sources claim that there is a god is questionable

How can we be sure that the books were not written by some insane person?

If it were written by some sane person then why don't we se the same miracles (a flood, locusts, and so on) exngulfing ALL (AND I MEAN ALL) of the disrespectful human race (an autrocity is commited on a regular basis).

hus the mere claim does not have basis because we have no hard evidence of a god, only written text that has been altered over time by the many writers and trascribers.

 

[Taoist]

Tell me is there a God?

Interesting! There seems to be less articulation when quotes of others are posted without direct reasoning.

More on Mirrors ….. http://www.geocities.com/Omegaman_UK/zoo4.html try this

Every individual possesses that simple ability to realize what “is” when the immediate seclusion is lifted. But conversing the knowing or even the “how to” takes a need coupled with foundation.

Think you know what you want? So empirical fact is what you need? Then why are you on this site? Looking for what all man has… forever. All taste that edge and the “prophets” tried to interpret that truth. Galileo and Copernicus were scorned for there questions and answers.

Each of this worlds brilliant minds brought God into the equation even without a symbol. Why?

Time, can never be left out for the “event” of observation must be taken into account. So each moment is an event in time that obviously will affect every event thereafter. Mr Prescott just won a Nobel using that one simple concept in economics.

This metaphor can be furthered in religion; your works. Conscious dictates those works as man’s eventual resolve is balance. How do you choose? Realize now with the eyes open and coast or realize tomorrow, enjoy the ride.

God? What a concept! Have you ever looked at the art of what he has been envisioned as? Beautiful gifts to our feeble minds.

Science is just as fascinating because every opened door adds a link. Astronomy will always humble and gravity alone causes confusion to the sharpest even if you’re a string man.

How did Copernicus figure we were not “it”? Not the center. Just a few days back the world didn’t recognize how trust in government fit into economics.

So you want to know is God real and why we are hear. Let alone a written law on how it works.

Yep, your human! Pay taxes!

 

[Taoist]

Since what was written may be unreliable have many levels of interpretation. Herein this is unreliable as interpreted by another.

So is any opinion.

Are all religions or man for that matter wrong to think that what he sees and feels consciously or subconsciously is unreliable. Have you ever had déjà vu? Actual taste of existence and of being when realized stimulates acknowledgment of more than just the physical nature of existence.

To realize that actually every atom affects all others in the universe with humility can mentally suppress obstacles but many questions will need to be asked and answered before seeing.

I coauthored a thesis, PNC Theory, 1982 …. Photo Neuron Conduction shows how our grey matter rides the lightning, left out were the implication as to how our ability to reason and consciousness was born because of this fact. Taking Einstein’s relativity into account if we were able to consciously ride the light we could in effect traverse time.

This concept allows an ability to accept associations to all. It also explains many areas of question such as ESP, déjà vu, intuition and prophets. Do I believe they had envisioned what they wrote about? Certainly! Maybe a little flawed by not knowing how to articulate the event let alone the conversion process of interpretation but be certain something is to be learned.

Each variation of religion has areas that the other left out but only a man’s desire will allow him to receive or pursue the information. Most have a universal message for the most part. All were written by man. We have the answers but choose not to see them.

 

[TENYEARS]

Taoist, you are actually thinking very good. Conciousness exists at even more subtle levels, I have proof. Yet I am human so as a human my data is faulty in terms of my experince because even if my so called brain stops what is perceived as electrical activity, in the arrogance of science they would say there is no activity and yet I leave it open and say there may be activity which is not measurable with the present methodology. I can and do have visions of the future that happen and I know they will and call them out before they do. This is impossible unless one thing is true by deductive reseasoning. I am cheating of course because I have figured out what gravity and matter was in 1991. So I do understand the nature of how it ties together. Are you a researcher now?

 

[Taoist]

Tenyears, hello and good morning! Research is ongoing with daily life. Never could understand how a day could pass without pursuing a quest of answering questions.

My problem is science and beliefs have many areas to be conveyed but the goal to publish needs a boost.

Diversity of intake has proven to be quite enlightening and has answered many questions. For example life did not need water to begin. It only offered a soup for more diversity.

There are areas of science and religion that need to open up but the proper venue has not been identified and my search continues. Hence my purposes within chat rooms; who are the new minds of tomorrow and can they take up the chore?

Many subjects have been researched and a realization that fossil fuel and nuclear facilities are no longer needed let alone evolution and religious models are coming to a head has this person brewing with a need to articulate with the outside world.

Gravity, matter and light are as one. Neither can be without the other. Or it could be said when one extreme reaches its peak it births the seed of the opposite. Whereas time reoccurs with a loss and a gain of opposites. Transformations occur but neither loose in value we still result to >1.

 

[XxFREEofFILTHxX]

Statements of belief should not be part of a rational discussion. Your point that God, as usually defined, is bigger than human beings (I believe the book of Job shows him making that very point) is taken. But then the universe, or even the solar system is bigger than human beings, which does not make cosmology and celestial mechanics foolish enterprises.

well, in which sense is the universe bigger then human beings?
just because it surpasses our limitations of understanding doesn't mean is bigger than us, that's ridiculous. cosmology is simply the study of a branch of metaphysics that deals with the nature of the universe : which human beings created!
Who set the system? Did we set the system in which we have created to understand things or is science all based on proof? Who are we to know what is right to understand, or really know what proof is, in that matter ? What you don't seem to grasp is how man explains science (based on logic and proof), and yet we fit everything into that system.
science is concept from man...
not man a concept from science or how we personally LIKE how to explain why things work.

it is obsurd for people to only rely on religeon for God, Dont you look at your self and ask why you are? or who you are? who created this? because if you want to rely on logic, it is logic for that reason, for eveything to have a creator. is not there more to all of this? you see god manifest though everything evey day, especially in life itself, and in your rational soul but "YOU" tend to keep "science" in your deviance from God.
there is no limit for God, if God wanted the big bang, fine. if he wanted evolution, fine. i don't care how you explain it is fine with me. it is very self centered to think that you can't have one with the other, and draws idiot not to believe in God.

God is contradicting... so what,......no one is arguing otherwise. He is Contradicting only because our understanding is a product of limited human logic. with that i conclude that God's logic is a whole new story, that we will NEVER COMPREHEND as long as we are. So it is useless to argue that he is contradicting.
and as far as the whole memory issue goes, its the most retarded thing i have ever herd in my 18 years of life for shure.

Yes God Does not exist!.....He Over-Exists.
He created Existance itself and for what reason do you think he is subject to Existance?
God is Above existing, PERIOD.

Could any Atheist or Agnostic of you figure this out?... No

 

[brandon.irwin]

XxFREEofFILTHxX, you seem interested in this subject, so I'll pick on you :) Remember, I'm just asking questions. They might not relate to what I believe in.

Do you believe that it's possible that the universe is just a set of physical laws, not governed by some entity? If not, why? Why does there have to be a God? Couldn't we have come into existence without a God? If not, why?

"What you don't seem to grasp is how man explains science (based on logic and proof), and yet we fit everything into that system."
If that were true, would we have religion?

"...you see god manifest though everything evey day, especially in life itself...", Couldn't all of these be related to chaos theory, where everything is a result of actions/states before it?

 

[Taoist]

God in title or in need

this looks "well, in which sense is the universe bigger then human beings?
just because it surpasses our limitations of understanding doesn't mean is bigger than us, that's ridiculous. cosmology is simply the study of a branch of metaphysics that deals with the nature of the universe : which human beings created! "

I created this response but representing to the cosmology of existence as a figNewton to imagination reflects inability to see a new picture

At least this period will have an effect were conjure cannot represent history.

Almost like asking a "Witness" to explain dinosaur bones. Or why life was not here when distant stars emitted their light and we see it today

Existence has not been explained in laws because of the lack of empirical data which has been limited by both time of pursuit and new concepts not yet explored. Remarks published currently show the pessimisms of man’s selfish individualisms. To be self righteous and confident also incorporates lack of humility. Why do you think Picaso has such a hard time completing his paintings because when approaching the canvass arrogance was forefront but until submission to humility surface the art did not appear.

I need to see proof That may be a paradox imposed just for you or metal wiring is being tested for sport, you make the call.

In either front the desire for that answer is present, falling back to that instinctive desire of man’s inert need for an explanation of the unknown.

All masters are humble to that existence. Call it what you will. Are you reading this, then so are u.

 

[XxFREEofFILTHxX]

first of all, the universe is not just a set of physical laws because there are non-physical laws which we do not understand.
I understand where you are going with this, I agree with what you are implying about how we don't know ANYTHING. The reallity is that we do not know one damn thing in this life.

Religion is based on faith if you knew a single thing about it, not proof. Although you do see the manifestation of God in life, it is not to be considered an explination, it is a result of him. For example, what is gravity? A force you might say, but that is just the effect of gravity and not what explains it or causes it. It doesn't tell us a damn thing.

Second of all if you want to talk about the Chaos Theory, it completely destroys itself simply because it uses reasoning and logic only to conclude that logic and reasoning is wrong and full of errors. In reallity this is, but logically everything destroys everything...you see there I go again with stupid logic, I asume if logic is wrong then what we know is wrong, but i used that type of reasoning to discredit it in the first place. It repeats in a circle of destruction.
In that... I cannot conclude that I know or don't know. With that said we are left to set it aside. We can apply this to a lot of what we think we know, in which it will simply tear itself to shreds.
That is why science keeps rewriting laws everytime they find something new,so they can try to make the universe logical in their logic system. Soon they will find the odds are against them and everything is beyond logic, which in fact they will realize the universe and life itself is not definable...its what defines things.

Now faith, on the other hand is infinite and not nessecarily logicalal, Therefore unlimited.

 

[selfAdjoint]

That's it. This thread is locked.