Is my phone actually listening in on me?

[sysprog]

I read a recent interview with Snowden, in which he said he only uses a self-moded cell phone, where he has opened it up and physically disconnected the microphone. If he wants to talk on the phone, he then plugs into the external jack. He assumes some of the software tries to listen in.

He's read the code; all of us who have read it know what it does; it does try to snoop.

 

[sysprog]

I'm allowed to say, that there're some code things that I'm not allowed to do, because 'they' (I think they're benevolent) have said permanently: NO, don't do that, we think it would cause more harm than good, so DO NOT . . . ; wherefore, I effing don't -- the 'they' to whom I'm referring (I've read enough of your posts here to be be rather confident that you know what or whom I mean by 'they') can pretty much do anything short of [what even 'they' can't do], so I try to avoid not listening to what 'they' actively and urgently proclaim to be their preferences.

 

[cosmik debris]

I had a chilling experience of this listening just last night. I was watching a TV programme and a character used the expression OG (oh gee), being a bit out of touch with the modern world I went to my phone to find out what it meant. I started typing "what does" and one of the suggestions was "what does OG mean".

Coincidence?

Cheers

 

[anorlunda]

Coincidence?

Not at all. It means that many other people watched the same program and were also puzzled by OG, and turned to a web search. Those autofill suggestions must be updated in real time.

 

[sepcurio]

There is also the psychological effect of selective attention, where things that are unusual tend to draw your attention more than ordinary things. So when you get a suggestion drop-down list that has items that are not related to what you've been talking about, you don't notice it. But when coincidentally something pops up that just happens to match what you've been talking about, you notice that and remember it. So over time you remember more incidents where the words match what you've been talking about.

Every so often, something will pop up that contemporaneously matches something I was just thinking about. Unless my phone is reading my mind, I don't think there is a connection there.

Also, there is the magnifying effect of people telling others about that weird thing that their phone just did. Nobody ever goes out of their way to post to a discussion thread, "Hey, guess what just happened? I typed something into my phone and the suggestions looked completely ordinary."

 

[sepcurio]

There is also the psychological effect of selective attention, where things that are unusual tend to draw your attention more than ordinary things. So when you get a suggestion drop-down list that has items that are not related to what you've been talking about, you don't notice it. But when coincidentally something pops up that just happens to match what you've been talking about, you notice that and remember it. So over time you remember more incidents where the words match what you've been talking about.

Every so often, something will pop up that contemporaneously matches something I was just thinking about. Unless my phone is reading my mind, I don't think there is a connection there.

Also, there is the magnifying effect of people sharing with others that weird thing that their phone just did. Nobody ever posts to a thread, "Hey, guess what just happened? I typed something into my phone and the suggestion drop-down list was completely ordinary."

 

[Stavros Kiri]

Those autofill suggestions must be updated in real time.

Is this a fact?

 

[anorlunda]

Is this a fact?

Just a guess based on post #33.

 

[DaveC426913]

Is this a fact?

I can corroborate that this has happened to me multiple times - more than seems reasonable for coincidence.

I will Google a term I just heard on a TV show and Google will have it at the top of my list. I certainly concluded that I was not the only one Googling that same term at that time.

 

[Stavros Kiri]

Just a guess based on post #33.

Ok. However real time statistics (without the search engine updating first) is I think a big thing, and I am not sure in which cases it actually happens. [I've seen all sorts of weird things! ...]

In the case of

I started typing "what does" and one of the suggestions was "what does OG mean".

I also tried a few minutes ago (using Google) "what does O" and the rest said came out first. However, not the case (at this moment) with just "what does". Could it be that you tried the first also, like me? ...

 

[anorlunda]

without the search engine updating first

I think that is a false premise. Every keystroke you type into the searchbox is being transmitted to the search engine, and it has an opportunity to update the autofill suggestions. You can test that by pausing after each character typed and see the autofill suggestions change.

The traffic could be optimized to not transmit and update until there is a pause in typing for a specified amount of time. That should produce fewer transmit/update cycles than keystrokes.

It can seem creepy to people and an invasion of privacy. With autofill on, your keystrokes are transmitted and the suggestions are generated even if you press backspace to erase what you typed before hitting ENTER. That can become an issue for example if the FBI suspects you of a crime and examines your computer history. Even the things you erased before ENTER are recorded in your history.

 

[Stavros Kiri]

I think that is a false premise. Every keystroke you type into the searchbox is being transmitted to the search engine, and it has an opportunity to update the autofill suggestions. You can test that by pausing after each character typed and see the autofill suggestions change.

The traffic could be optimized to not transmit and update until there is a pause in typing for a specified amount of time. That should produce fewer transmit/update cycles than keystrokes.

It can seem creepy to people and an invasion of privacy. With autofill on, your keystrokes are transmitted and the suggestions are generated even if you press backspace to erase what you typed before hitting ENTER. That can become an issue for example if the FBI suspects you of a crime and examines your computer history. Even the things you erased before ENTER are recorded in your history.

It's possible that it works that way. I'm not sure. But as I said, I've seen all sorts of things, that are not as obvious to me. And e.g. Google changes and evolves, as apps are renewed etc. . Things I notice nowdays are not all the same as compared to the first time I used Google, several years ago.

your computer history. Even the things you erased before ENTER are recorded in your history.

However, for search history, I think only the actual performed searches are seen in your history (in app or browser based search engines) [I have tested that (e.g. what typed and erased without going through for search does not eventually appear in my seen history ...)]; and originally I would have thought that also only actual performed searches (after pressing enter, or hitting the search symbol) would participate in the engine's real time statistics (evey few minutes' updating ...). However, I am not sure. What you say is possible and could be true ...

Every keystroke you type into the searchbox is being transmitted to the search engine, and it has an opportunity to update the autofill suggestions. You can test that by pausing after each character typed and see the autofill suggestions change.

However, that could alternatively be because of a delay of the engine to realize and guess your full sentence etc. ...

 

[cosmik debris]

Not at all. It means that many other people watched the same program and were also puzzled by OG, and turned to a web search. Those autofill suggestions must be updated in real time.

I didn't think of that Are all these experiences people have of a similar nature? Is the phone listening thing just a conspiracy theory, or does it really happen?

At work we tried mentioning a topic at morning tea to see if anyone's phone picked up the conversation, the results were negative.

Thanks

 

[DaveC426913]

Is the phone listening thing just a conspiracy theory, or does it really happen?

Depends what you mean.
Phones can and do listen to ambient conversation under certain circumstances - it is a question of what circumstances - and where does one draw the line for what's OK and what's not.

 

[sepcurio]

However, for search history, I think only the actual performed searches are seen in your history (in app or browser based search engines)

Although the keystroke detail is not in your browser's history, it is recorded on the server's logs and in any sniffers they may be running.

 

[Stavros Kiri]

Although the keystroke detail is not in your browser's history, it is recorded on the server's logs and in any sniffers they may be running.

Of course. But these are two different things ... (as long as we realize that; and a 3rd for the search engine's [e.g. Google] mechanism of recording and statistics ...)

 

[sysprog]

Although the keystroke detail is not in your browser's history, it is recorded on the server's logs and in any sniffers they may be running.

Only what is sent to them and received by them can be logged by them, but we can say that if we send it, we should be confident that we can never not have sent it, and we didn't try to make machines that are good at forgetting things.

 

[Stavros Kiri]

Only what is sent to them and received by them can be logged by them, but we can say that if we send it, we should be confident that we can never not have sent it, and we didn't try to make machines that are good at forgetting things.

The big and official things happen when you actually hit "Enter" (or "Search"), ... but spooky things can happen even without ...

 

[fluidistic]

The big and official things happen when you actually hit "Enter" (or "Search"), ... but spooky things can happen even without ...

You don't need to press "Enter" in Google for it to permanently record what you typed. You're already sending it data when you press any key, regardless of whether you activated "suggestions".

 

[Stavros Kiri]

You don't need to press "Enter" in Google for it to permanently record what you typed. You're already sending it data when you press any key, regardless of whether you activated "suggestions".

True, (for the search engine's preliminary or permanent recording and/or statistics), but it does not go in your seen history of the app or browser ... etc. (see earlier) unless you actually perform it, I think, as far as I know and have checked so far. That's what I meant ... . What you say is a different thing (function of the search engine [e.g. Google]), and there are actually at least 3 different things (issues), usually confused between them. See also:

Of course. But these are two different things ... (as long as we realize that; and a 3rd for the search engine's [e.g. Google] mechanism of recording and statistics ...)

 

[Stavros Kiri]

Only what is sent to them and received by them can be logged by them,

We've concluded that at least the search engine and computer's logs record (and make statistics [at least for the first]) even by typing ...

but we can say that if we send it, we should be confident that we can never not have sent it, and we didn't try to make machines that are good at forgetting things.

You probably want to say that once we send it we cannot unsend it (or 'undo' it). That's usually necessarily true; however, recent updates of Gmail app have the feature to 'unsend' a mail [before it's been read, if you cancel it in time (disappears from the receiver's mailbox [?] ...) - I've never actually used it] ...