Is not getting a 1st a red flag in academia?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of not achieving a first-class degree in academia, particularly regarding its impact on future academic opportunities such as PhD applications. Participants explore the weight of undergraduate grades in relation to academic and non-academic pursuits.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses concern about the long-term effects of not achieving a first-class degree, noting the importance of balancing academics with sports and social activities.
  • Another participant suggests that undergraduate grades primarily matter when applying for PhD programs, and their significance varies by academic system.
  • A different viewpoint indicates that while a first-class degree is not a red flag in academia, it can limit options for PhD programs at prestigious institutions like Oxford and Cambridge.
  • A quote from Stephen Hawking is shared, illustrating the perceived importance of degree classification in determining future academic paths.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that undergraduate grades are less significant after obtaining a PhD, but there is disagreement about the specific implications of not achieving a first-class degree for future academic opportunities.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights varying perspectives on the importance of degree classification, particularly in different academic contexts, and the potential limitations based on institutional prestige.

ergospherical
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Because of having put a lot of time toward sports & social stuff this year it's looking a bit unlikely that I'll achieve a 1st this year, compared to the competition. I'm pretty happy with where I am at the moment so I don't really want to sacrifice these other aspects over the next month for a slightly better grade - only question is whether it'd hurt me in the long run? Outside of academia, degree classification seems to carry less weight (at least according to careers fair reps to whom I've spoken) compared to internships, networking & non-academic projects. What is the picture inside academia?
 
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It depends on what you mean by "Inside academia". Your grades as an undergraduate only matters when you apply for your PhD and how much your grades matter then depends on the system.
Once you've completed a PhD (and you nearly always need a PhD to work in academia) no one will care what you did ort didn't do as an undergraduate.
 
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It's not a red flag (as f95toli wrote, once you've got a PhD nobody cares about your bachelor-degree class), but it does affect where you will be able to follow a PhD program. In the UK, you need a 1st if you want to do your research toward a PhD at Oxford or Cambridge or other top-notch university. If you have only a 2:1, you may still be able to join a research group, but it will be at a less prestigious university. After that, however, your academic career will depend on your published research.
 
Hawking on getting a first or second at Oxford
"In the interview they asked me what were my future plans. I said I wanted to do research - if they gave me a first I would go to Cambridge. If I only got a second I would stay at Oxford.


"They gave me a first."
 
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