Shall I just focus on getting a good job?

[homeomorphic]

Yes, we can take a break, but only after pointing out that I went to grad school and working with professors all day, so I know what they do. It may be different in different countries. But trust me, most math and physics people aren't interested in being CEOs. A few may be.

 

[Almeisan]

And most people in business schools have little interest in heading an archeology research department.

 

[micromass]

A professor will rarely teach or do research himself/herself.

What? Where did you get this from?

 

[Almeisan]

A professor heads the research group. They are very busy. They have one or two specialty courses a year that they give. Most of the stuff they do is manage all the researchers in their research group, the post docs, the university lectures and all the other tenured staff.

I know some of you call everyone that stands in front of a class beyond high school a 'professor', but professors are the CEO's of the academic world. How do I know? How do you not know? A big physics forum pins 'staff emeritus', 'science advisor' and 'education advisor' next to your name but you have no experience in the academic world?

Yes, I admit it depends a lot on what type of lab is run. But sometimes a professor has 50 people working under him, with more than half of them having doctorates. And yes, in business or academics, not everyone gets to boss around 50 other people.
And if you have that many people working for you, you already have a full-time job just keeping up with what everyone is doing.

I don't see how you can stand in the lecture hall every morning, do measurements yourself in the lab every afternoon, and help read every relevant publication and get all the post-docs and tenured researchers unstuck the moment they can't figure it out themselves, and make sure that the PhD candidates that are managed by your staff actually live up to the standards. Because that last thing is the main thing that differentiates a professor from all other academic staff.

 

[micromass]

Now I'm really curious for your experience in the academic world. Either you have no such experience, or it is in experimental science. Am I right?

 

[Almeisan]

I have no such experience.

 

[micromass]

Alright, that's what I thought. Maybe you shouldn't be making such statements if you have no experience in the academic world.

I actually do have such experience. I'm a post-doc in mathematics and I work with professors every single day. Yes, writing grands is a big part of their job. But so is teaching. A professor here usually has an assigned amount of hours that he has to teach, it is very rare that he doesn't have to teach (this is probably different at other universities). But the main job of a professor is research. I know that all the professors I know actively do research and wouldn't be professor if they had to write grants all day and not do research. Furthermore, while a professor supervising 50 people happens in experimental science, I don't know any such example in theoretical science like physics or math. My current supervisor has about 7 students. Yes, she has a very busy job, but supervising students really doesn't take as much time as you think it does.

 

[Almeisan]

You got to be kidding.

Anyway, mathematics isn't strictly science and since mathematics differs so vastly, we should be applying it strictest sense. Come back when you have actual academic experience in an actual science.

In my setting it is the PhD candidates that supervise the students. Professors can manage PhD candidates, but that depends on how much staff that lab has. If the lab is big enough, there's likely to be an assistant or at least a post-doc that can do a better job.

If all your supervisor has is 7 students and you, how is that person a professor. How do you call the person she/he reports to?

 

[micromass]

OK, I'm going to ignore your troll comments about math not being science (it's not a science, but you're intentionally missing the point). Just know that this forum isn't like youtube comments. I think you'll find that out quickly.

In my setting it is the PhD candidates that supervise the students.

And what is that setting? You said you had no academic experience.

 

[Almeisan]

Ok so now I am trolling. I put down a wall of text and you put down a one-liner that's a veiled insult. Take your bullshit elsewhere, Mr Emeritus post-doc.

I have been at this place for over 10 years. Why should I be insulted by you and just suck it up?

 

[micromass]

Again, what is your exact status at the moment? Undergrad student? Grad student? In what field?

If all your supervisor has is 7 students and you, how is that person a professor. How do you call the person she/he reports to?

Professors work independently. But in terms of academic structure, above the professor is the department head and then the faculty dean. They're not exactly the bosses of the professor though.

 

[StatGuy2000]

Again, what is your exact status at the moment? Undergrad student? Grad student? In what field?

Here is a thread started by Almeisan below, back in Oct 2014.

https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...ith-phd-in-physical-molecular-biology.778153/

 

[micromass]

OK, so his background is biology. That makes a lot of sense, because such large research groups as he describes do happen there as far as I'm aware. So given that background, his replies make a lot of sense. I just wish he mentioned this immediately so we could have a constructive talk about this.

 

[atyy]

Even in biology, there is a lot of variability depending on research group. 50 is pretty much the upper end, even for a big lab. I've worked in 4 biology labs in the United States with 2 professors and 2 assistant professors, the largest lab had not more than 10 people at its largest, and more usually the size was between 4 and 8 people. My experience might be on the smaller end of things because I specialized in "small data" :)

 

[micromass]

I guess we have to take country in consideration too. From his writing style, I think I can deduce he's from the netherlands. So I don't really know what the specific culture there is. Aside from country, it depends a lot on the specifics of the university too. I'm just surprised that he said that professors don't have to do teaching. In my country -which should have the same specifics as the netherlands- university professors are required to teach a certain amount of courses; sometimes that is a lot of courses, sometimes it is only one each semester. The PhD students are usually there to guide the exercise sessions, but rarely to do the actual lectures themselves. I really wish he would return to this thread and clear up that he is in fact from the netherlands, and what the teaching requirement is on professors in his university. I'm really curious now.

 

[Dale]

closed pending moderation

Edit: we will leave it closed at this point.