Other Is Pursuing a Career in Physics the Right Choice for Me?

[Slimy0233]

What is your region or district or county hurting for? Could this become possible plan B or plan C, for you?

I am sorry, I don't get that.

Meanwhile I think I know what I might want to do. I might want to go into an MBA and do something Physics related. I am not sure how this is going to workout but I feel like it's a meaningful thing for me to do. I don't know if I will stick with this, I hope I will.

I feel like I want to do something big and engineering (although I love the concept) will bring me more suffering especially if I do it in India. Let's say what I can do about that.

 

[Slimy0233]

I suggested to you a middle of the road approach. You're likely to be able to get a data job with your skills.

I am feeling like that can be helpful! I am going to do something related to data too. I think I am going to prepare for an MBA and I like the way I am feeling about that right now. I am not sure as of now, but I am sure enough.

 

[WWGD]

I am feeling like that can be helpful! I am going to do something related to data too. I think I am going to prepare for an MBA and I like the way I am feeling about that right now. I am not sure as of now, but I am sure enough.

Well, look at your Avatar ;).

 

[CrysPhys]

what do you think about MBA though? Or finance? I would need some challenging and difficult. And I might want to leave my country for good so that my kids won't have to go through what I am going through right now.

I'm in the US. I don't know what the job market in India is. But I'll chime in since you mentioned that you might want to leave India.

* MBA. I'm a physicist, but I have 4 MBA's in my family. At least in the US, getting an MBA is a good step for career advancement after you have already been employed for several years. That is, you already have work experience as a staff member, maybe some preliminary managerial experience, and know that you want to advance to a managerial position. Some of the top business schools here won't even consider you for admission unless you have ~3 - 5 yrs work experience. You should check carefully the situation in India.

* Finance. This might be a good path out for you. I'm a volunteer English as a Second Language (ESL) tutor. One of my students is a financial analyst who recently immigrated to the US from China. He seamlessly transitioned to a job as a financial analyst for a US branch of a Chinese bank. You should look at which Indian banks or other financial institutions have branches in the US or other countries you might be interested in relocating to.

 

[Mark44]

The main question infront of me is "Should I run after money and abandon Physics or Should I follow my passion because it might give me happiness someday.

What you should abandon is this "follow my passion" bilge. It's very clear from the dichotomy that I quoted that running after money = bad while "follow my passion" = good. It's very easy to disparage "run after money" when you're being supported by someone else. From what you wrote about your father's failing health, you might not be able to run through daddy's money much longer.

You're 23 now. Have you ever had a job (one for which you were paid)?

 

[russ_watters]

I realize this sir, but I see so many examples of people who are rich and yet miserable and I don't want to end up like them.

Being rich and miserable is a lot better than being poor and miserable.

 

[Dale]

I beg you to write as much about it as you can, I realize it's a big ask. I really want to know more about this. I want to get rid of that and I want to learn to do something which I would find meaningful.

I don’t know what else there is to say about it. The idea you have that you will only be happy if you do physics, or that physics is somehow uniquely meaningful/pure/whatever. That idea is wrong. It is a lie. It is a fantasy. It is a mistake. It has no factual basis whatsoever.

Your belief that it is true will only cause problems and unhappiness. Either you will get into physics and be disappointed that your actual physics career doesn’t live up to the impossible fantasy you had imagined, or you take a different path and when normal challenges arise you will bemoan your lost fantasy. Either way, this false belief leads to disappointment. You must get rid of the lie from your mind.

You currently seem to be leaning towards finance, I have a friend in finance who finds it very meaningful. He works with people to plan and prepare for financial stability for individuals and their families. He absolutely would describe his career in finance using the same terms that you use to describe physics. Physics is meaningful, but it is not uniquely meaningful.

 

[CrysPhys]

OP: Some additional comments.

* You keep saying you have a passion for physics. But from all your posts so far, it's more accurate to say you have a passion for some abstract, idealized vision of what you think physics is. Perhaps I've missed it, but I haven't seen you actually demonstrate passion for a particular field of research.

* With perhaps an outlier or two, a PhD in Physics is no guarantee of a long-term career in physics (or even physics-related) research. Others have discussed the minuscule opportunities for attaining a tenured professorship at a university. But even in industry, there are no guarantees. I'm in the US. I got my bachelor's at a top undergrad school and my PhD at a top research university. I then landed an R&D position at a top industrial lab. But after a relatively short 8 years (relative to 4 yrs undergrad plus 7 yrs grad), there was an industry-wide meltdown. I was then faced with a "Should I stay, or should I go?" scenario of my own. If I wanted to stay in the field I loved, I would need to uproot my family and move (or else split my family). If I wanted to keep my family intact and not relocate, I would need to switch fields. I chose to switch fields. And I switched fields several more times during my career in response to corporate and industry-wide "business conditions".

* So back to you. Suppose you spend the next 10+ yrs to attain a PhD in Physics, and you succeed. Now suppose you then spend several more years as a postdoc, aspiring for a career as a university professor, but don't actually land a position? Or suppose instead you land a job as an industrial physicist, but several years in are faced with an industry-wide downsizing? Will you be prepared to say, "Hey it was fun while it lasted," and move on to Plan X? Or will you be devastated and paralyzed?

 

[Lathropian]

My perspective is that I should have stayed with physics and I regret switching to engineering to some extent, although it has the benefit of being more applicable. It sounds like you are unsure of how much value you can add making small contributions to the physics community via papers and/or research. My advice to you would be to think bigger and find a way to motivate yourself to do big things in your field, it takes confidence but you enjoy physics now and if you keep doing it I am sure you will continue to enjoy it. However, for the sake of your family if you don't think you can muster up the confidence to make it work, then you may need to consider something else. Family is most important.

There is always what I did which was making a late switch to EE. I ended up with a BS in EE and minors in Physics and Mathematics. It wasn't really clear to me what year you are in currently based on your post, but the longer you wait, the less time you will have to complete engineering specialization courses that will enhance your job marketability. This of course depends on how much extra time you are willing to stay studying at university.

 

[Mark44]

* You keep saying you have a passion for physics. But from all your posts so far, it's more accurate to say you have a passion for some abstract, idealized vision of what you think physics is. Perhaps I've missed it, but I haven't seen you actually demonstrate passion for a particular field of research.

The exact same thought occurred to me.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Me too.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Lets look at this from the other direction.

1. You need a job, You can't count on your family to support you forever.
2. You have decided that out of all of the possible jobs out there, only one will m,ake you happy., This job appears unavailable to you. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated that you even know what this job entails. And, as you yourself admit, you might not be any good at it.
3. Conclusion: you will be unhappy.

Now that we've established that, you can decide between the two options @russ_watters pointed out.

It was pointed out that counseling might help you understand why you have such a restricted idea of what will make you happy and seem to make only unrealistic plans to reach this goal. You dismissed it as too expensive. So in some sense, you have already decided.

 

[StatGuy2000]

Lets look at this from the other direction.

1. You need a job, You can't count on your family to support you forever.
2. You have decided that out of all of the possible jobs out there, only one will m,ake you happy., This job appears unavailable to you. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated that you even know what this job entails. And, as you yourself admit, you might not be any good at it.
3. Conclusion: you will be unhappy.

Now that we've established that, you can decide between the two options @russ_watters pointed out.

It was pointed out that counseling might help you understand why you have such a restricted idea of what will make you happy and seem to make only unrealistic plans to reach this goal. You dismissed it as too expensive. So in some sense, you have already decided.

@Vanadium 50 , it is important to point out that @Slimy0233 is from India, whereas most of the people who have replied are from Western countries like the US. So the advice we provide here may not necessarily be applicable for someone like the OP.

@Slimy0233 , I have a few questions for you:

1. You state that you are from India. Where in India are you from?

2. Do you come from a religious minority? (e.g. Muslim, Sikh, Jain, Parsi) Or an ethnic minority (e.g. a tribal community)?

3. If you are Hindu, what is your caste? (e.g. Brahmin, Kshatriya, Dalit, etc.)

4. More broadly, what is your financial status, or the financial status of your family?The answers to the above 4 questions would help to determine next steps in terms of seeking employment (either within India or elsewhere), or how practical it would be to emigrate.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I'm not 100% comfortable with asking people their religion here.

In any event, the OP has been absent for a month. Presumably he is hitting the books, as he has very little time left and most of the material left to cover.

 

[StatGuy2000]

I;m not 100% comfortable with asking people their religion here.

In any event, the OP has been absent for a month. Presumably he is hitting the books, as he has very little time left and most of the material left to cover.

I asked the OP their religion and caste because given what I know about India and its society, it may be pertinent to the OP's ability to find employment, and would thus provide information that may be useful when we are offering advice.

 

[AlexB23]

For me, I will probably not stay on this forum much longer, maybe 2024 at the latest, as most folks are not my age, and PF is a little too formal. It is a good site, but is just not a good fit. But for you, it depends*.

*GDPR rules for EU inhabitants allows one to request right to leave a forum, and delete an account. I am not in the EU, so the rule may or may not apply in other areas.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I understand why you asked. I am still not comfortable with the question, especially as the OPs whole plan depends on his being imhumanly smart - learn all of a physics degree 12x (originally 6x) faster than those slowpoke students at Oxbridge or Stanvard - without benefit of a university. Then outcompete his entire country for admission, and then do so well as an MS student to again outcompete those dummies from Oxbridge or Stanvard for one of the limited PhD slots in the west,

The OPs religion affects the probability of success of this plan in maybe the seventh or eighth decimal place.

 

[CrysPhys]

I asked the OP their religion and caste because given what I know about India and its society, it may be pertinent to the OP's ability to find employment, and would thus provide information that may be useful when we are offering advice.

If you have some special insights that would require the OP to disclose more personal details (not appropriate for disclosure on a public forum), you could send him a private message.

 

[StatGuy2000]

If you have some special insights that would require the OP to disclose more personal details (not appropriate for disclosure on a public forum), you could send him a private message.

That's a fair point. I will take that into consideration going forward if the OP decides to respond.

 

[Slimy0233]

Some of the top business schools here won't even consider you for admission unless you have ~3 - 5 yrs work experience. You should check carefully the situation in India.

Sorry for the really late reply! I have got a ton of things going on right now.

Here most of the students who attend MBA colleges are freshers and 2-3 years of work experience is considered ideal for a 2 years MBA whereas for executive MBA 5 years is considered ideal. I must thank you for giving me that bit of information, had I seen it a month ago it would have saved me some time in research.

[and thank you generally] :)

 

[Slimy0233]

What you should abandon is this "follow my passion" bilge. It's very clear from the dichotomy that I quoted that running after money = bad while "follow my passion" = good. It's very easy to disparage "run after money" when you're being supported by someone else. From what you wrote about your father's failing health, you might not be able to run through daddy's money much longer.

You're 23 now. Have you ever had a job (one for which you were paid)?

I am 23 and no I have never had a job, but that's not considered unusual here in India. You are expected to finish your studies and then get a job. But in this at least, I prefer the western work cultural norms. A part-time job during summer vacations might have helped me widen my horizon and be less of an armchair everything.

I agree with your statements, especially abt passion and "running after money".

 

[Slimy0233]

If you have some special insights that would require the OP to disclose more personal details (not appropriate for disclosure on a public forum), you could send him a private message.

replying to @StatGuy2000 to the message which is quoted by @CrysPhys

I think it my duty to somewhat inform you that my caste and religion doesn't really play a major role in the job I may get. It might play a small role in the rural areas, but generally it doesn't hold me back. In fact if anything there has been reservations since our constitution was drafted which makes sure that a good percentage of "lower caste" communities get a go at success, we have scholarships and reservations (which is a contentious topic in itself, I feel like reservations shd end). But no, even though caste still remains a part of life, it doesn't determine my future, it doesn't have much power over me.

I might myself be described as "Hindu lower caste" (although, I am an atheist) but I have never faced adverse effects of caste I was born into anywhere but in my grandpa's village which I visited annually and that too very mild.

I am sorry, I just want all of you to know that caste isn't a big factor in Indian cities anymore, it doesn't hold that much power over us.

 

[Slimy0233]

You currently seem to be leaning towards finance, I have a friend in finance who finds it very meaningful. He works with people to plan and prepare for financial stability for individuals and their families. He absolutely would describe his career in finance using the same terms that you use to describe physics. Physics is meaningful, but it is not uniquely meaningful.

Sorry for the late reply sir, I have been having a full plate last few months with unenviable tasks of self-discovery and reflection.

Also, finance apparently seems to have a low "meaningfulness rating" but of all the categories in finance people who help families/individuals manage their wealth seem to be have a higher than average sense of satisfaction.
Apparently the field will make me good money and it is fluid, if I don't like one thing I can switch to another, I believe I can do some good for myself and for others over there. Let's see! thank you!

 

[Slimy0233]

I'm not 100% comfortable with asking people their religion here.

In any event, the OP has been absent for a month. Presumably he is hitting the books, as he has very little time left and most of the material left to cover.

I gave up sir! I think I took the right decision. I did what I could while studying physics but laziness and lack of hard work cased me to fail. I don't completely regret it (giving physics a shot) and I am somewhat happy I am quitting it now rather than later (although Ik for a fact that I could have made it work had I put my stuff together) and you are one of the people who helped me make that decision. Although I feel like you have mischaracterized me when you said my plan depended on being "inhumanly smart", and you were somewhat rude to me, I am extremely grateful to you of all here because you really gave me the truth without sugarcoating it and it helped me to give up Physics.

I don't know how you will take this comment but I am just trying to say that you have had a meaningful and a positive impact on my life. You were the brick wall of reality that I needed to hit and I am glad you were there. That previously linked comment especially was very helpful.

 

[Slimy0233]

Dear all who commented here and tried to help me, I am eternally grateful.

All of you have been very very helpful in the hardest time of my life (yet)! I just want to thank each and every one of you (especially the mentors and educational advisors) for you really did help me more than I could have expected. Most of you were kinder and patient to a stranger than one could reasonably expect. This might sound cheesy but I really am grateful for all your help!

I have realized that I don't need Physics to lead a meaningful life and I realized some of the errors of my ways and I am trying to correct it. I still don't know how to lead a meaningful life though but I will try and find it out.

Some of you were concerned and curious abt my well being, thank you for that, I am not well, but I am much better than when I created this post. [sorry about my English]

 

[ateixeira]

what do you think about MBA though? Or finance? I would need some challenging and difficult. And I might want to leave my country for good so that my kids won't have to go through what I am going through right now.

Here are my belated two cents: don't be afraid to explore the world outside physics. After my degree I worked in McKinsey, the financial sector and then on Boston Consulting Group. These are fields where I've met a lot of other physicists and mathematicians and all of them enjoyed their work very much.

And contrary to what is usually thought us physicists don't have value only as quants and data scientists. We also excel in the more strategic parts of consulting and in my view this is the ideal path for physicists that are more on the theoretical side.

My belated advice is for physicists that are thinking about dropping out of physics to read "The McKinsey Way" and get an idea of what it is that strategic consultants do.

Now that I think of it I think I will write a thread on avenues outside physics that aren't the paths usually taken and talked about.

 

[WWGD]

replying to @StatGuy2000 to the message which is quoted by @CrysPhys

I think it my duty to somewhat inform you that my caste and religion doesn't really play a major role in the job I may get. It might play a small role in the rural areas, but generally it doesn't hold me back. In fact if anything there has been reservations since our constitution was drafted which makes sure that a good percentage of "lower caste" communities get a go at success, we have scholarships and reservations (which is a contentious topic in itself, I feel like reservations shd end). But no, even though caste still remains a part of life, it doesn't determine my future, it doesn't have much power over me.

I might myself be described as "Hindu lower caste" (although, I am an atheist) but I have never faced adverse effects of caste I was born into anywhere but in my grandpa's village which I visited annually and that too very mild.

I am sorry, I just want all of you to know that caste isn't a big factor in Indian cities anymore, it doesn't hold that much power over us.

There's a program to help lower castes that I know about, but it's in IT, and it's called " Ctrl, Alt, Dalit".

 

[Slimy0233]

Here are my belated two cents: don't be afraid to explore the world outside physics. After my degree I worked in McKinsey, the financial sector and then on Boston Consulting Group. These are fields where I've met a lot of other physicists and mathematicians and all of them enjoyed their work very much.

And contrary to what is usually thought us physicists don't have value only as quants and data scientists. We also excel in the more strategic parts of consulting and in my view this is the ideal path for physicists that are more on the theoretical side.

My belated advice is for physicists that are thinking about dropping out of physics to read "The McKinsey Way" and get an idea of what it is that strategic consultants do.

Now that I think of it I think I will write a thread on avenues outside physics that aren't the paths usually taken and talked about.

hey there, thank you for trying to help! since I have done only a bachelors and that too a triple major (Physics with Maths & computer science), I doubt if McKinsey or any other consulting groups would be interested in someone with that and mediocre grades. Moreover, from what I have heard, if you don't have good grades or great alma-mater, you don't exist for consulting firms (we have an oversupply of everything here, even PhD's in Physics)

But, I would nonetheless be interested in hearing what you have to say, following you! :)

 

[ateixeira]

what do you think about MBA though? Or finance? I would need some challenging and difficult. And I might want to leave my country for good so that my kids won't have to go through what I am going through right now.

I know that the

hey there, thank you for trying to help! since I have done only a bachelors and that too a triple major (Physics with Maths & computer science), I doubt if McKinsey or any other consulting groups would be interested in someone with that and mediocre grades. Moreover, from what I have heard, if you don't have good grades or great alma-mater, you don't exist for consulting firms (we have an oversupply of everything here, even PhD's in Physics)

But, I would nonetheless be interested in hearing what you have to say, following you! :)

Yes grades are very important for the MBB companies but they are not all. One way to get the foot in is to have connections. If you can support your case by having some excelent extra-curricular activities it won't be bad either.

I was thinking and maybe it makes more sense to have a kind of a videotalk around this (or a llive in one of those "new" platforms). In any case I will make a thread about this and then if we can get a three or for people from this forum to debate this topic and leave in video format for other to see and add it would be nice.

I will post the thread tomorrow, as soon as I finish organizing my thoughts.

 

[CrysPhys]

@ateixeira . To help you kickstart your effort, the American Physical Society (APS) has some material discussing career options for physicists as consultants. See, e.g., https://www.aps.org/careers/physicists/consultant.cfm. I also recall an article in APS News written by a physicist working at Boston Consulting. Maybe also a video on the APS careers website.