Is Stephen Hawking's Take on Aliens as Funny as We Hoped?

[elect_eng]

Hawking is a brilliant scientist and has all my respect, but he never would have made it as an engineer or an economist. He estimated the value of the Earth's resources but forgot to consider the shipping costs.

 

[Je m'appelle]

"If aliens visit us, the outcome would be much as when Columbus landed in America, which didn't turn out well for the Native Americans."

I'll have to disagree with Mr. Hawking.

Mr. Hawking clearly made an analogy on a possible contact with an advanced civilization in the nearer future with the human experience that happened on the 15th century, but is this an accurate analogy?

Well, it seems, as Human History has shown us, that most, if not all, contacts between two different civilizations end up on the most advanced and predispose taking advantage of the least predispose one.

Can this behavior be observed on a different species? Yes. Even if we take as an example an irrational species, we are likely to observe this same pattern. As this is a natural consequence between populations of certain species, if both populations come into contact, that is, start to coexist in the same environment, it is very likely that the most fit will eventually conquer the region and natural resources, as both populations can be seen as intra-species competitors.

But what if we consider a very intelligent civilization, far beyond ours? As rational beings, would they still follow this behavior or would they have a deeper understand of our position in the Universe?

This raises a lot to think, but in the way I see it, I don't think that a civilization that masters interstellar traveling would search all the Universe for intelligent life (which is way rarer than Life itself) and then simply annihilate them to take over their planet.

Mr. Hawking's position sounds very dramatic in my humble opinion.

 

[zomgwtf]

I don't think that a civilization that masters interstellar traveling would search all the Universe for intelligent life (which is way rarer than Life itself) and then simply annihilate them to take over their planet.

Although it seems that way how it's presented here I don't think this is what Hawking was alluding to exactly...

 

[cronxeh]

It seems pretty simple, to aliens we are the apes. You don't see apes walking on the streets of our cities do you? You see them in the wildnerness being hunted, and in the zoos. You don't need to study all 7+ billion of humans to get the idea, you only need like a dozen people, rest you can kill and harvest for atoms or proteins or whatever they are into. As for wildlife, after a while you also start to get the gist of things and lose interest. I agree with Hawking on this one, aliens are not going to be our friends. There won't be a free technology exchange or integration of our knowledge. They will observe, take what they want, destroy what they want, and do whatever they want. Our response is the classical unification vs common threat, a nuclear response, and a conventional gorilla warfare against a superior force. We will probably lose.

"Say Hello To My Little Friend"

 

[fourier jr]

ron graham said

It would be very discouraging if somewhere down the line you could ask a computer if the Riemann hypothesis is correct and it said, 'Yes, it is true, but you won't be able to understand the proof.'

maybe aliens would say the same thing if we asked

 

[pallidin]

My question would be this: Why does Hawking make such an extreme statement?
Instead of "balancing" that idea, he basically say's "avoid all potential alien contact"

I'm losing some respect for him...

 

[Evo]

My question would be this: Why does Hawking make such an extreme statement?
Instead of "balancing" that idea, he basically say's "avoid all potential alien contact"

I'm losing some respect for him...

Maybe he knows something we don't know? Maybe he's had contact?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Maybe he knows something we don't know? Maybe he's had contact?

Now don't make me ban you!

Seriously, highly accomplished scientists are not immune to exotic beliefs. However, I didn't think his comments suggest that he expects that we will make contact, or that we have, only that if we assume it to be possible, we should avoid it. There is nothing wrong with logic applied to an assumption, as long as one knows they are making the assumption. Perhaps he believes that exotic transportation technology may one day be possible, in which case we would have to assume this is true for some ETs out there now.

 

[turbo]

Now don't make me ban you!

Seriously, highly accomplished scientists are not immune to exotic beliefs. However, I didn't think his comments suggest that he expects that we will make contact, or that we have, only that if we assume it to be possible, we should avoid it. There is nothing wrong with logic applied to an assumption, as long as one knows they are making the assumption. Perhaps he believes that exotic transportation technology may one day be possible, in which case we would have to assume this is true for some ETs out there now.

Can you think of any prominent scientist that is more helpless, and more dependent on others? His personal situation and world-view may have some bearing on his attitude. Why would any alien races expend time, money, and resources to come here, only to expend more resources eliminating us (or enslaving us) before they had a bit of time to evaluate their options?

 

[MotoH]

What makes us think that other life forms are any more advanced than we are?

 

[Mu naught]

Can someone perhaps explain what it is exactly Stephen Hawking has done to make him so well known? Yes his condition is tragic, but if he weren't confined to a wheelchair would anyone care about him?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

What makes us think that other life forms are any more advanced than we are?

We have no way to know. We can reasonably argue that there could be ETs over a billion years older than us. If there is still much to know about the absolute limits of physics and the other sciences, then a very old race could presumably be highly advanced as compared to us. For that matter, we can't know how long it takes of an advanced species to evolve. Were we lucky - a fortuitous freak of nature - or are we slow learners? Maybe we live on a dumb planet.

 

[DavidSnider]

Maybe he knows something we don't know? Maybe he's had contact?

Or maybe... we have. You have to admit, that would be an awesome disguise.

 

[elect_eng]

Can someone perhaps explain what it is exactly Stephen Hawking has done to make him so well known? Yes his condition is tragic, but if he weren't confined to a wheelchair would anyone care about him?

There are many reasons he is well-known, but his theoretical discovery of Hawking radiation comes to my mind first. This is more than sufficient to place him among the great scientist and makes him well-known among physicists. Also, his popular books allow him to be well-known among the masses.

Of course, his condition and characteristic mechanical voice make him hard to forget also, but that would hardly be sufficient in itself.

A more interesting, and harder to answer, question is whether he would have attained his notoriety and made great discoveries without his tragic condition. Clearly he always had the ability, but I can't help but speculate that perhaps his condition created a sense of urgency and focused his mind to very particular goals. I remember reading that he was a strong athlete and charismatic person in his youth. There were many paths he could have taken if he had stayed healthy.

 

[jreelawg]

I agree that intelligent alien life might be interested in studying, observing, and perhaps even keeping natural order protected. But what people are ignoring is the fact that humans are pretty much bad for the planet and it's natural treasures. It isn't a stretch to imagine them taking action to protect the natural order from humans, by eradicating us.

For what reasons should they be concerned with usany more than we are concerned with any more than we are of mosquitos or invasive plant species. Then there is also the possability they are enamoured with us, who knows.

You have to also consider we make good slaves.

 

[ABioTeacher]

“If aliens ever visit us, I think the outcome would be much as when Christopher Columbus first landed in America, which didn’t turn out very well for the Native Americans.”-from the link provided, words by Stephen Hawking.

This can be interpreted in many ways. For example, when Columbus landed, European disease wiped out score of Native Americans. The same could be true with alien life forms spreading diseases to us.

Yeah, this is how I viewed his statement. Although, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of alien life having an aggressive or manipulative motive in dealing with the human race. What if we seemed to be more like ants to them or a disease that should be whipped out?

It isn't a stretch to imagine them taking action to protect the natural order from humans, by eradicating us.

Yep

Who knows. Maybe we'd strike first. Human paranoia and all.

Perhaps, Mr. Hawking saw Avatar one too many times.

 

[zomgwtf]

What makes us think that other life forms are any more advanced than we are?

If intelligent life visited us they would be far more advanced than we are. We haven't even had a robotic space probe travel into interstellar space yet and we struggle sending men to the Moon.

 

[MotoH]

They could be in the same boat we are, only they were stupid enough to go on a spaceship for a really long time.

 

[Mu naught]

There are many reasons he is well-known, but his theoretical discovery of Hawking radiation comes to my mind first. This is more than sufficient to place him among the great scientist and makes him well-known among physicists. Also, his popular books allow him to be well-known among the masses.

Of course, his condition and characteristic mechanical voice make him hard to forget also, but that would hardly be sufficient in itself.

A more interesting, and harder to answer, question is whether he would have attained his notoriety and made great discoveries without his tragic condition. Clearly he always had the ability, but I can't help but speculate that perhaps his condition created a sense of urgency and focused his mind to very particular goals. I remember reading that he was a strong athlete and charismatic person in his youth. There were many paths he could have taken if he had stayed healthy.

Yes that's an interesting thought. I always find it comforting knowing that if something ever happens to me and I lose my legs, or end up incapacitated in some way that I'll (hopefully) still have my mind. Sometimes I think that if I were locked up in jail with nothing to do but study books in my cell that I'd be a far better student than I am now

 

[pallidin]

Sometimes I think that if I were locked up in jail with nothing to do but study books in my cell that I'd be a far better student than I am now

This has happened with prisoners regarding artwork.

 

[Shalashaska]

This has happened with prisoners regarding artwork.

I think people tend to either break as in the case of severe sensory deprivation, or they turn inward. For some, that experience means confronting things that they can't bear, but for others, as you say, creativity can be expressed.

I find it astonishing that Hawking does in his head, what most people cannot manage with a room full of dry-boards! That being said, he is fairly uniquely famous, but I would say "A Brief History of Time" did that. He 'explained' black holes to the lay community when people had literally no idea what they might be. Right or wrong, he also did it with humor, and pictures, and THEN you add the condition and "robot voice" and yeah, fame.

Given his declining health however, it's hard to tell at this point what to make of his statements regarding ETs. Either way, he's made people such as Susskind and Thorne famous to people who don't even know what Relativity or QM are, and that can't be a bad thing. Let's face it, after Einstein, and Oppenheimer and (spit) Wernher von Braun and more, scientists + the information age = public awareness.

I find it easier to accept than celebrity chefs.

 

[pallidin]

I think people tend to either break as in the case of severe sensory deprivation, or they turn inward.

I would agree with that.

 

[Shalashaska]

I would agree with that.

Thank you pallidin. What I'd like to know are what factors predict which outcome someone will face. You seem pretty knowledgeable in this arena, do you have any idea?

 

[Shalashaska]

Hmmm, you know, I've done some more reading on Hawking's view on this, and once you filter the media hysteria, he makes an excellent point. I doubt we face imminent threats, but more along the lines of, "do we really want to broadcast our nature and locations to unknown entities?". This is a lot of hype around a basic cautionary tale.

 

[LeibnizWas1st]

Given a number of possibilities, I believe Hawking's scenario is the most (marginally) likely.

A) It is almost a given that they have traveled a very long distance.
B) They probably traveled at near light speeds. This is a safer bet then say FTL, as it doesn't involve speculative exotic matter for worm holes and such.
C) They don't have a home to return to. Due to relativistic effects during travel their home, as they know it, doesn't exist anymore.

Which means...
D) They are NOT explorers! They came because they want something--and we have it! A stable oasis in a vast desert. When you get a glass a water at night and happen to see Mr. Cockroach is also sharing the benefit of said kitchen, do we not just step on it? Do we lose any sleep afterwards?

I don't see them destroying all the cities or wiping humanity out. Just swiping us aside whenever we become a nuisance.

 

[Shalashaska]

Given a number of possibilities, I believe Hawking's scenario is the most (marginally) likely.

A) It is almost a given that they have traveled a very long distance.
B) They probably traveled at near light speeds. This is a safer bet then say FTL, as it doesn't involve speculative exotic matter for worm holes and such.
C) They don't have a home to return to. Due to relativistic effects during travel their home, as they know it, doesn't exist anymore.

Which means...
D) They are NOT explorers! They came because they want something--and we have it! A stable oasis in a vast desert. When you get a glass a water at night and happen to see Mr. Cockroach is also sharing the benefit of said kitchen, do we not just step on it? Do we lose any sleep afterwards?

I don't see them destroying all the cities or wiping humanity out. Just swiping us aside whenever we become a nuisance.

A) True.
B) Who knows, and that assumes...
C) A life of a type and span that cares or experiences these effects

D) How does A+B=D? They traveled a long way based on old light from this planet, instead of exploring nearby regions? A civilization that cannot achieve FTL travel (entirely likely!)
seems to be going out of their way for what the Earth offers. There's little here on Earth that cannot be harvested from other planets and planetoids, and even water would be easier to MELT than to take here.

Do you step on a cockroach and except the infestation to abate? More likely, you avoid infestations in the first place.

 

[ranrod]

I found Hawking's views very pessimistic too.

If an alien civilization discovered the secrets of the universe to such extent as to be able to travel through the stars to distant planets and/or galaxies, at speeds close to the speed of light or beyond, what could we possibly have to offer?

They can figure out how to master space-time, but they need help finding water? Making a burger? It's hard for them to figure out how we operate? They need wood for a fire? Ridiculous.

They could mess with us for fun, I guess, but I'm more optimistic than that.

 

[pftest]

I found Hawking's views very pessimistic too.

If an alien civilization discovered the secrets of the universe to such extent as to be able to travel through the stars to distant planets and/or galaxies, at speeds close to the speed of light or beyond, what could we possibly have to offer?

They can figure out how to master space-time, but they need help finding water? Making a burger? It's hard for them to figure out how we operate? They need wood for a fire? Ridiculous.

They could mess with us for fun, I guess, but I'm more optimistic than that.

We figured out how to go to the moon. But our scientists still study life, biology. They do it in labs and also travel the world looking for new species.

 

[jackmell]

I personally just don't see it happening and it's a lot simpler my way. Author C. Clark said by 3000, man will have traveled to all the stars visible by the naked eye. I think he meant about 4000 in general. I don't think that's gonna' happen, not even one and further I do not believe that at any time in the entire history of the Universe, one intelligent life form has ever made physical contact with another intelligent life form, not ever. The distances are too great, the conditions too harsh, and the chances that two intelligent life forms exist at the same time and in relatively the same location in the Universe are extremely unlikely. Don't get me wrong, I think there is tons of life in the Universe but it's all happening at different times, different rates of evolution, and different levels of success. Very unlikely in my opinion to find two independently-evolved intelligent life forms in the same relative vicinity at the same time.

 

[jreelawg]

I think that it's best to just assume that we have no idea. The true reality could be so many different ways. I expect that the truth is far stranger than what most of us imagine and expect.

What if they are such master of the universe, that they can terraform Earth to suit their biology? What if their planet is going to be destroyed by an unstoppable force, and they had chosen Earth thousands of years ago as a replacement.

The point is, when it comes to reality, their is always a history and story which leads up to the present which you cannot predict. For example, when the white man colonized the new world, it happened to have been the case that they had particular beliefs and particular desires, and particular technology, particular culture, particular leadership etc. There is no way to know what ET visitors think, what they want, what they believe, and so on.

I know that there are a lot of humans on Earth that enjoy killing other species for fun, just for the blood lust. For all we know, they could come as sport hunters. Maybe they bring stuffed human bodies, cow heads, etc, as trophies and hang them in a wall with species they've killed from all over the universe.

Somehow, the notion that because they are so advanced, they must be so emotionally advanced and empathetic. It may be that the opposite, perhaps, emotion being a weakness in a sense has been left behind with the new ages of technological biological hybridization.