Is the anti-derivative of a continuous function continuous?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the continuity of the anti-derivative of a continuous function. Participants explore the implications of differentiability and continuity in the context of integration and anti-derivatives, with a focus on proving the continuity of the anti-derivative without assuming its differentiability.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the integral of a continuous function is continuous and seeks validation for this assertion.
  • Another participant suggests that the area under a continuous graph should intuitively imply continuity of the anti-derivative, though they acknowledge this is not a formal proof.
  • Some participants argue that being integrable is sufficient to show that the anti-derivative is differentiable.
  • There is a discussion about the definition of an anti-derivative, with one participant stating that if F is an anti-derivative of f, then F' = f, which implies F is differentiable and thus continuous.
  • Concerns are raised about circular reasoning when using the property of being an anti-derivative to prove continuity while trying to establish differentiability.
  • One participant emphasizes that the anti-derivative is a "smoothing" operation, suggesting that F is at least as smooth as f, and that F is continuous wherever f is continuous.
  • A mathematical expression is introduced to illustrate the relationship between F and f, indicating a method to analyze continuity through limits and integrals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to approach the proof of continuity for the anti-derivative. Some assert that continuity follows from differentiability, while others challenge this reasoning, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of definitions and the implications of continuity and differentiability, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the conditions under which these properties hold. The discussion reflects a range of interpretations and approaches to the problem.

Niles
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Hi guys

I have been wondering: Say we have a continuous function f. I integrate f to obtain its anti-derivative called capital f, i.e. F. Now I wish to prove the differentiability of F, and in order to do so, I need the fact that F is continuous (this is just something I need in my proof).

Now, the problem is that I cannot deduce continuity of F on the fact that F is differentiable, since I wish to prove the differentiability of F. What can I do instead?

I thought of using the argument (which I am not sure is correct) that the integral of a continuous function is continuous. Am I allowed to do this?
 
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Niles said:
I thought of using the argument (which I am not sure is correct) that the integral of a continuous function is continuous. Am I allowed to do this?

How would you argue for it? :smile:

Try to make a proof for that assertion!


By the way, yes, it is provably correct..:smile:
 
Hmm, I can't come up with a proof for it, but I mean: Why shouldn't it be continuous? If we look at it as describing the area under a continuous graph, then needless to say, it has to be continuous. But again, this is hardly a proof..
 
Isn't the fact that f is integratable (to F) enough to show that F is differentiable?
 
I am told to do it "the long way" :smile:
 
There's something important you can say about the anti-derivative. What is it? The answer is in the name.
 
Werg22 said:
There's something important you can say about the anti-derivative. What is it? The answer is in the name.

I cannot use that F is an anti-derivative (i.e. that it is differentiable) to prove its continuity, since I am trying to prove its differentiability. So I must use another argument.
 
If F is the antiderivative of f then F'=f, so obviously F is in C^1.
 
I am quoting what I said earlier:


Niles said:
I cannot use that F is an anti-derivative (i.e. that it is differentiable) to prove its continuity, since I am trying to prove its differentiability. So I must use another argument.
 
  • #10
The whole point of being an "anti-derivative" is that it has a derivative! How else are you going to use the fact that this function is the anti-derivative of some function?
 
  • #11
HallsofIvy said:
The whole point of being an "anti-derivative" is that it has a derivative! How else are you going to use the fact that this function is the anti-derivative of some function?

But isn't that a circular argument? I mean, I am trying to prove differentiability, so I can't argue from this "ansatz"/claim that it is continuous.
 
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  • #12
Alright, then, how are you defining "anti-derivative"? After all, if you are going to prove anything about an anti-derivative, you are going to have to use the fact that is is an anti-derivative- you are going to have to use the definition.

The definition I know of "anti-derivative" is "F(x) is an anti-derivative of f(x) if and only if F'(x)= f(x)". It pretty much follows from the fact that f(x) is the derivative of F(x) that F(x) is differentiable. And, of course, "differentiable" is stronger than "continuous". If F(x) is differentiable, it must be continuous.

The anti-derivative is a "smoothing" operation. F(x) is always at least as "smooth" as f(x). Even if f(x) is not continous, F(x) is. And F(x) is "continuously differentiable" wherever f(x) is continous.
 
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  • #13
HallsofIvy said:
Alright, then, how are you defining "anti-derivative"?

I would to it like you did. But you have a good point.

Thanks to all for helping.
 
  • #14
since the integral over a interval [x,x] is always zero (given the integrand is continuous)
then take the limit of the next expression:

F(x+h)-F(x)=\int^{x+h}_{0}f(x)dx-\int^{x}_{0}f(x)dx=\int^{x+h}_{x}f(x)dx
 

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