Is the increment of the expanding universe part of cosmology

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the expanding universe and whether the notion of an "increment" in its size is a part of cosmology. It explores theoretical implications, definitions, and interpretations of expansion within cosmological models, particularly the FLRW model.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference the FLRW model as a foundational mathematical framework for cosmology, noting its differentiable nature and features like being finite and expandable.
  • One participant questions the meaning of "increment" in the context of the universe's expansion, suggesting it could relate to the speed of light over a short time interval.
  • Another participant challenges the idea of expansion having a speed, asserting that it is characterized by a rate of change of the scale factor rather than a conventional speed.
  • A participant attempts to clarify their use of "increment" by describing the universe's expansion as an encroachment into previously unoccupied space, raising the question of whether this concept fits within cosmological discussions.
  • Counterarguments are made regarding the existence of a "three-dimensional environment" outside the universe, emphasizing that the universe's expansion does not imply it is expanding into pre-existing space.
  • One participant concludes that cosmology does not address the concept of an increment in size as it does not align with accepted models of the universe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement on the interpretation of the universe's expansion and the validity of the term "increment." There is no consensus on whether the increment is a relevant aspect of cosmology.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the definitions and assumptions surrounding the concept of expansion, particularly regarding the nature of space and the framework of cosmological models.

Hugh de Launay
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{Reference: Wikipedia's Friedmann-Lemaitre-Robertson-Walker (FLRW) Metric article)}

The FLRW (1935) mathematical model of the universe is the one most used by cosmologists. It is differentiable, which means it is based on sound, consistent, mathematical formulations. (The Lambda-CDM model is further developed, but the FLRW model is adequate for this post.) Included in the FLRW mathematics are some of Einstein's field equations from general relativity. Some of the features of the FLRW model are that it is finite, unbounded, expandable, and free of topology defects.

I understand that the model has no borders and can be infinite if needed, and that this is required by its mathematics. What I am curious about is the attitude of cosmologists toward the ongoing increment of the expanding universe. Is it a part of cosmology, or is it not? If it is, then what is the consensus view of its nature?
 
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Sorry, what does 'increment' mean in this context?
 
Drakkith said:
Sorry, what does 'increment' mean in this context?
Assuming a speed of light expansion, the increment would be the speed of light multiplied by your choice of a length of time. I had in mind a small amount of time like a microsecond or less.
 
Hugh de Launay said:
Assuming a speed of light expansion

Which is not correct. The expansion of the universe does not have a speed. It has a rate of change of the scale factor in the metric. That's not the same thing.

Because the expansion of the universe does not have a speed, it does not have an "increment" either, at least not as you are using the term.
 
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PeterDonis said:
Because the expansion of the universe does not have a speed, it does not have an "increment" either, at least not as you are using the term.
I understand the expansion of the universe is a change of the scale factor in the metric, and that because of this the visible universe has a radius greater than the age of the universe in light years. I wanted to avoid bringing that up, but now I see I have to.

The universe expands, so it encroaches upon the three dimensional environment beyond the space it already occupies. The encroachment is an increment of the size of the universe which has occupied space it had not occupied before its expansion. The question is: is this increment in size a part of cosmology or is it not?
 
Hugh de Launay said:
The universe expands, so it encroaches upon the three dimensional environment beyond the space it already occupies.

No. There is no "three dimensional environment" beyond the space the universe occupies. The universe is not expanding into a pre-existing "space". That is not what "the universe is expanding" means. It means the universe has a 4-dimensional geometry with a particular shape. There is nothing "outside" this 4-dimensional geometry.
 
PeterDonis said:
There is nothing "outside" this 4-dimensional geometry.
Okay. I see that the answer to my question is no. Cosmology will not deal with a question that refers to events that are not integrated within the accepted models of the universe, and the increment (encroachment) in size of the universe has the status of not taking place within the cosmological models. I got my answer. Thanks for your help.
 

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