Is the Projection Matrix A^2=A Valid in R^4?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of a specific projection matrix in the context of linear algebra, particularly focusing on whether the condition \(A^2 = A\) holds in \(\mathbb{R}^4\). Participants explore the implications of this condition for identifying subspaces related to the matrix, specifically the kernel and image, and whether two proposed solutions for the kernel are equivalent.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the matrix satisfies \(A^2 = A\), confirming it as a projection matrix.
  • There is a discussion on finding the subspace \(U'\) by determining \(\text{ker}(A-I)\) and \(\text{im}(A)\), with some proposing that these are equivalent.
  • One participant presents a solution using Gauss Jordan elimination, yielding a specific form for the kernel, while another questions the equivalence of this solution to a given alternative form.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the correctness of the provided solutions and suggest checking their equivalence through substitution into the proposed forms.
  • There is a query regarding the implications of the projection along subspaces and whether \(A^2 = A\) holds across the entirety of \(\mathbb{R}^4\).
  • Participants discuss the relationship between the kernel and image of the matrix, with some suggesting that multiplication by 2 does not alter these properties.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the equivalence of the two proposed solutions for the kernel. There is also uncertainty regarding the implications of the projection in relation to the entire space of \(\mathbb{R}^4\).

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the elimination process and the definitions of the kernel and image may depend on specific assumptions or interpretations of the matrix properties, which remain unresolved.

schniefen
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TL;DR
Show that the linear transformation with the matrix below with respect to a basis for ##\textbf{R}^4## is a projection on a subspace ##U'## along a subspace ##U''##. Find ##U'##.
## \dfrac{1}{2}
\left(\begin{array}{rrrr}
0 & 2 & -2 & 0 \\
3 & -2 & 2 & -3 \\
3 & -4 & 4 & -3 \\
-2 & 2 & -2 & 2
\end{array}\right)##​

The matrix satisfies ##A^2=A##, so it is a projection. To find ##U'##, one can find the ##\text{ker} \ (A-I)=\text{ker} \ (I-A)=\text{im} \ (A)=U'##. Also, ##\text{ker} \ (A-I)=\text{ker} \ (2(A-I))##.

Solving ##2(A-I)\textbf{x}=\textbf{0}## using Gauss Jordan elimination yields ##\textbf{x}=r(-2,-1,1,0)+t(-3,-3,0,1)## for ##t,r\in\textbf{R}##. But the solution given is ##\textbf{x}=r(0,3,3,-2)+t(1,-1,-2,1)##. Are these solutions equivalent? Since the columns of the matrix span the image, every vector in the image can be represented by at least the linear independent vectors in the matrix, which the latter solution does.
 
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schniefen said:
Summary: Show that the linear transformation with the matrix below with respect to a basis for ##\textbf{R}^4## is a projection on a subspace ##U'## along a subspace ##U''##. Find ##U'##.

## \dfrac{1}{2}
\left(\begin{array}{rrrr}
0 & 2 & -2 & 0 \\
3 & -2 & 2 & -3 \\
3 & -4 & 4 & -3 \\
-2 & 2 & -2 & 2
\end{array}\right)##​

The matrix satisfies ##A^2=A##, so it is a projection. To find ##U'##, one can find the ##\text{ker} \ (A-I)=\text{ker} \ (I-A)=\text{im} \ (A)=U'##. Also, ##\text{ker} \ (A-I)=\text{ker} \ (2(A-I))##.

Solving ##2(A-I)\textbf{x}=\textbf{0}## using Gauss Jordan elimination yields ##\textbf{x}=r(-2,-1,1,0)+t(-3,-3,0,1)## for ##t,r\in\textbf{R}##. But the solution given is ##\textbf{x}=r(0,3,3,-2)+t(1,-1,-2,1)##. Are these solutions equivalent?
I don't know whether Gauß elimination really results into the two vectors you listed. But to check whether the two solutions are equivalent, just test whether
$$
(-2,-1,1,0) \stackrel{?}{\in} r_1(0,3,3,-2)+t_1(1,-1,-2,1) \;\wedge\; (-3,-3,0,1) \stackrel{?}{\in} r_2(0,3,3,-2)+t_2(1,-1,-2,1)
$$
This is an easy system to solve. To me it doesn't look as if there were solutions ##r_i,t_i##, but I haven't checked.
Since the columns of the matrix span the image, every vector in the image can be represented by at least the linear independent vectors in the matrix, which the latter solution does.
To check whether your elimination process was correct, you could simply solve ##A(x)=x## by hand.

The given solution has a big advantage:
  1. One sees at once that ##\operatorname{rk}A =2## ...
  2. ... and that the first two or likewise last two column vectors are linearly independent,
... hence span the image of ##A##.
 
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Could it be that the solution given is not correct? This (scroll down) matrix calculator gives the former solution. Note that the matrix there is ##2(A-I)##, which is

##
\left(\begin{array}{rrrr}
-2 & 2 & -2 & 0 \\
3 & -4 & 2 & -3 \\
3 & -4 & 2 & -3 \\
-2 & 2 & -2 & 0
\end{array}\right)##​
 
Why do you want to operate with ##2(A-I)## if ##A## alone has already all answers?

Anyway, what keeps you from solving the question whether the two solutions are equivalent? It can almost be done in mind! E.g. ##t_1=-2## follows immediately, which forces ##r_1=-1## by the second coordinate, and now simply check whether these settings match coordinate three and four. Same with the second vector.

Btw., do you know why ##\operatorname{ker}(2A-2I)=\operatorname{im}(A)## holds?
 
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Solved it.

fresh_42 said:
Btw., do you know why ##\operatorname{ker}(2A-2I)=\operatorname{im}(A)## holds?

##\text{ker} \ (A-I)=\text{ker} \ (I-A)=\text{im} \ (A)=U'##
 
Or ##A(\textbf{u})=\textbf{u'} \iff A(\textbf{u'}+\textbf{u''})=\textbf{u'}##.

When ##\textbf{u'}=\textbf{0}##, it follows that ##A(\textbf{u''})=\textbf{0}##.
 
Yes, and no. The argument goes this way:
$$
A^2=A \Longrightarrow A\cdot A -A = A(A-I)=(A-I)A=0
$$
If ##v \in \operatorname{im}A## then there is a vector ##w## with ##v=A(w)##. Thus ##(A-I)(v)=(A-I)A(w)=0## and ##v\in \operatorname{ker} (A-I)##. This means we have shown that ##\operatorname{im}(A) \subseteq \operatorname{ker}(A-I)##.

Can you show why ##\operatorname{ker}(A-I) \subseteq \operatorname{im}(A)## and why multiplication by ##2## doesn't change neither kernel nor image?
 
fresh_42 said:
Can you show why ##\operatorname{ker}(A-I) \subseteq \operatorname{im}(A)## and why multiplication by ##2## doesn't change neither kernel nor image?

How would the argument go?
 
By the same method. We choose an element ##v\in \operatorname{ker}(A-I)##. Now what does this mean?
 
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  • #10
schniefen said:
Summary: Show that the linear transformation with the matrix below with respect to a basis for ##\textbf{R}^4## is a projection on a subspace ##U'## along a subspace ##U''##. Find ##U'##.

## \dfrac{1}{2}
\left(\begin{array}{rrrr}
0 & 2 & -2 & 0 \\
3 & -2 & 2 & -3 \\
3 & -4 & 4 & -3 \\
-2 & 2 & -2 & 2
\end{array}\right)##​

The matrix satisfies ##A^2=A##, so it is a projection. To find ##U'##, one can find the ##\text{ker} \ (A-I)=\text{ker} \ (I-A)=\text{im} \ (A)=U'##. Also, ##\text{ker} \ (A-I)=\text{ker} \ (2(A-I))##.

Solving ##2(A-I)\textbf{x}=\textbf{0}## using Gauss Jordan elimination yields ##\textbf{x}=r(-2,-1,1,0)+t(-3,-3,0,1)## for ##t,r\in\textbf{R}##. But the solution given is ##\textbf{x}=r(0,3,3,-2)+t(1,-1,-2,1)##. Are these solutions equivalent? Since the columns of the matrix span the image, every vector in the image can be represented by at least the linear independent vectors in the matrix, which the latter solution does.
I am a bit confused. Since they mention it is a projection along a subspace U', I would assume U' is not the whole of ##*\mathbb R^4##. Does ##A^2=A## hold in the entire ##\mathbb R^4##,i.e., is it an identity?
 

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