Is the Put/Call Game on a Bitcoin Casino's Bankroll Manipulable?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential for manipulation in a proposed Put/Call game based on a Bitcoin Casino's bankroll. Participants explore whether the game's structure, influenced by the casino's house edge, allows for cheating or manipulation that could favor players despite inherent risks. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects of gambling mechanics and profitability.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a Put/Call game where users bet on the rise or fall of a Bitcoin Casino's bankroll, which has a house edge of 1%.
  • Another participant questions the clarity of the problem and suggests a need for a more accessible explanation suitable for a mathematics forum.
  • A participant acknowledges a previous error in their explanation and attempts to clarify how the betting system works, emphasizing the potential for profit based on the casino's profit fluctuations.
  • One participant highlights that the house advantage and the number of games played can significantly affect the game's fairness and profitability, providing an example of how expectation values can illustrate the house edge.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the potential for manipulation within the game. While some believe the house edge limits the possibility of cheating, others suggest that manipulation could still occur under certain conditions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the fairness and profitability of the proposed system.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the need for clearer definitions of terms and concepts related to the house edge and betting mechanics, as well as the dependence on specific game structures and betting periods.

Alanay
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My plan is to have a Put/Call game on top of a Bitcoin Casino's Bankroll. The Casino already has a house edge of 1%. So a user can guess if it will rise or fall after a certain amount of games have been played on the Casino. Then the payout is adjusted accordingly. So if they call the bankroll they will make less profit since they're more likely to win by doing so.

If I'm right it is not possible to cheat in this game or manipulate it without losing.

For example is somebody tries to cheat by doing this:

- Bankroll is 100 BTC
- Player calls the bankroll for 2 BTC
- Bankroll is now at 102 BTC
- Player loses 1 BTC on purpose
- Bankroll is now at 101 BTC
- Player is now even more likely to lose

A friend however tells me it is still prone to manipulation because somebody could make small bets at the same number and then a bigger one, I didn't quite understand him but you might. I said I don't think it will work because the casino still has a house edge of 1% and so they'd likely be losing anyway.

Is this game prone to manipulation in a way that makes it more likely for a player to win than lose even if they lose money (BTC) in the process?
 
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Can you describe the problem in such a way that you don't have to know all the economics terms to understand what is going on? As in, more suitable for the mathematics forum?
 
The part where I said "For example is somebody tries to cheat by doing this:" I was wrong.

I'll explain it again and here we're now going to do it and hopefully make a profit.

Say we have a Bitcoin Casino with a house edge of 1%. We let out users guess if the Investor's Profit of the Bitcoin Casino will rise or fall. So I can bet 0.1 BTC on rise, after 30 seconds I will either have won or lost something. Let's say the Investor's Profit rise by 0.01 BTC, so I take 0.0099 profit. However if I bet 0.1 BTC on fall, after 30 seconds I win again because it fell 0.01 BTC then I take 0.011 profit since it is more likely that the Investor's Profit will rise rather than fall. I just need somebody to check if this system is fair, and if it is profitable.
 
That depends on how exactly the house gets its advantage and how many games are played within a betting period and so on. As an example, a game with a bet of 1 could have 2% chance to return 0 and 98% chance to return 1+1/98. The expectation value is 0.99, so the house has an edge. But in 98% of the cases, a single game will lead to an increase in the money the investor has.
 

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