Is the Universe Running Out of Atoms?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the theoretical possibility of the universe running out of atoms, exploring concepts related to matter, energy, and the stability of protons. Participants engage with various hypotheses and implications of atomic decay, the nature of matter-energy conversion, and the longevity of particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that while it is theoretically possible for atoms to "run out," it is highly unlikely in the foreseeable future.
  • There is a discussion about whether the universe could "run out" of matter, with some arguing that the concept is vague and requires clarification.
  • One participant mentions the hypothesis that protons may not be stable and could decay over extremely long timescales, potentially leading to a decrease in the number of atoms.
  • Another participant suggests that the universe operates in a cycle of matter and energy, where matter is created from energy and vice versa, implying that atoms do not simply "run out."
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of matter being destroyed and the corresponding release of energy, with references to the Big Bang as a pure energy state.
  • Participants discuss the lifetimes of protons and other particles, with varying estimates of proton decay timescales, highlighting uncertainty in the stability of matter.
  • One participant questions what particles protons would decay into if baryon number conservation were violated, indicating a speculative exploration of particle physics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the topic, with no consensus reached. There are competing ideas about the stability of matter, the nature of energy-matter conversion, and the implications of proton decay.

Contextual Notes

Discussions include assumptions about the stability of protons and the definitions of "running out" of atoms, which remain unresolved. The conversation also reflects varying interpretations of theoretical frameworks in particle physics.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in theoretical physics, particle physics, and cosmology may find the exploration of atomic stability and matter-energy relationships relevant.

mimefan599
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could, theoretically, atoms ever run out, though it is very unlikely. Please Respond:cool:
 
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Do you mean, could the universe 'run out' of atoms? Out of matter?

Not likely, at least not in the next several billion years or so, as far as we know.
 
Mimefan's question is perplexing, but not as perplexing as Astronuc's response.

Both question and response seem to be based on a premise that atoms are being created somewhere and destroyed somewhere.

If I have a sealed box of marbles, will the box ever "run out" of marbles?
 
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That being said, I suppose a technically accurate answer might make reference to the hypothesis that protons are not stable, that they will, if given enough time, decay into other subatomic particles. Thus, eventually, the number of atoms in the universe will drop by attrition. I ma not sure if this is a genreally accepted fact of the Standard Model, or something proposed by a theory not yet in common acceptance (such as string theory).

But when I say "eventually", I mean that the time it takes for even one proton to decay is on the order much longer than the time the universe has left (which is in the trillions of years or so).
 
Maybe we should wait for the OP to simply explain further what is being asked. I mean "run out" is such a vague concept here.

Zz.
 
me said:
Not likely, at least not in the next several billion years or so, as far as we know.
Actually, my response is somewhat tougue-in-cheek. I perhaps should have added :biggrin:

Actually, as Zz mentioned, I am waiting for some elaboration on the OP - actually an explanation of what the OP means.
 
Generally, I believe the universe exists in energy and matter. Just as water vapor evaporates from the sea and rains over land and runs back into the sea, I believe the universe constantly creates matter from energy which in turn the matter is converted back into energy. Everything eventually cycles so atoms would break down into energy and then be recreated.
 
I was always under the impression that there needed to be a appropriate exchange between the two, matter and energy. If that much matter was destroyed there would be a lot of energy released right?
________
"Never be first; try to be second". __ Enrico Fermi
 
Yes, a lot of energy would be released.

Consider, if there really was a big bang that started the universe it probably was a pure energy expansion and the entire universe contained only energy. Once the cycle started, matter was created and eventually collected into the galaxies we see today. If all the matter were converted back into energy, the energy would simply fill up the universe as it was in the beginning.
 
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  • #10
Astronuc said:
Actually, my response is somewhat tougue-in-cheek. I perhaps should have added :biggrin:
Doh. I should have knowed.
 
  • #11
What about the proton's life time? I read that some particles have a lifetime (forgive me that is a very loose use of the word there) allow me to associate the word lifetime as the time until what we know the particle as currently to change into something else. Like a neutron, that has a very short lifetime when separated from the nucleus or when created in a reaction. The proton however has a lifetime of approximatly 10^26 years, or something similar to that? I might be wrong on that number if so please correct me, but in answer to the original post, I suppose you could say that eventually matter will eventually change, but i don't know about run out.
 
  • #12
In contrast, the experimental lower limit on the half-life for the proton decay is 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or 1032 years! If the half-life were any shorter, proton decays would have been observed in experiments searching for them, yet they have not been seen. (You might wonder how such a limit can be set. A cube of water 10 meters on each side contains 1033 protons and neutrons. With appropriate instructions, one can watch this water very carefully!)
http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/vvc/theory/decays.html"
One thing I wonder is , if violation of Conservation of Baryon Number could occur, what particle(s) would the proton theoretically decay into?
 
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  • #13
A positron, some neutrinos, a coupla gammas...
 

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