Is There a Center of the Universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of whether there is a center of the universe in relation to the Big Bang theory. Participants explore the implications of the Big Bang, the nature of space and time, and the potential existence of black holes in this context. The conversation includes theoretical perspectives and analogies to explain these complex ideas.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that if the Big Bang occurred, it must have started at a specific location, with one proposing the possibility of a black hole at that point.
  • Others argue that the Big Bang was not an event that occurred in a particular location, as it involved the expansion of space and time itself, making every point in the universe equivalent.
  • A participant uses a balloon analogy to illustrate that, like points on a balloon's surface, all locations in the universe are moving away from each other, indicating there is no center.
  • It is noted that cosmologists refer to the Big Bang as a model describing the universe's evolution from a hot, dense state, rather than the initial singularity, which lies outside current theoretical frameworks.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the existence of a "place" for the Big Bang, suggesting that time and space emerged from quantum fluctuations, and emphasize the lack of a theory for that initial moment.
  • There is a discussion on the differences between the Big Bang and black holes, with one participant stating that they are fundamentally different types of singularities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the existence of a center of the universe and the nature of the Big Bang. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus reached on these complex topics.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on various interpretations of the Big Bang theory and the initial singularity, as well as the lack of a comprehensive theory for the moment of the Big Bang itself.

RWHITE
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I am not a scientist. Just a normal 52 year old.
One question I have is - If there was a Big Bang,there has to be a place
where it started though I've never heard anyone talk about it.
Personally, I think there may be a Black Hole there.
I have some stuff on Black Holes but that can wait.
??
 
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You have to remember that the big-bang wasn't just the creation of matter/energy; it was also an explosion of the dimensions of space and time themselves. The big-bang didn't occur in any particular "location" in space, because the big-bang gave rise to space itself.

Consider a "flatland" analogy: you live in a 2dimensional universe, there is only forward-back, and left-right. You also live on the surface of a balloon. The big bang, is when the balloon first began to expand from an infinitesimal point; at some time later, after the balloon has expanded, you try to figure out where the big bang "happened" i.e. the center of the universe. To do this, you look at a much of markers which are fixed in place, because the universe is expanding, it must be expanding from the 'center'--so where-ever things are expanding FROM is the center. On the surface of the balloon, however, every point is moving away from every other point at the same rate (imagine drawing something on the balloon, and blowing it up--it all stretches out evenly)--which shows that there IS NO center.

Astronomical observations show us that every location in the universe is basically equivalent, that can be interpreted as meaning that either there is no center, or every point in space is the center.
 
RWHITE said:
I am not a scientist. Just a normal 52 year old.
One question I have is - If there was a Big Bang,there has to be a place
where it started though I've never heard anyone talk about it.
Personally, I think there may be a Black Hole there.
I have some stuff on Black Holes but that can wait.
??

The Big bang happened everywhere.

Imagine a very long rubber sheet, and part of that rubber sheet is the observable universe (in 3d) and now stretch it from all directions to mimick the expansion. The expansion occurs in every part of the rubber sheet.
 
It might be useful to point out in this thread that when cosmologists use the term 'big bang', they are not referring to the initial moment of expansion, ie they are not discussing the initial singularity. Clearly the nature of the initial moment lies outside the regime of validity of current theories. What cosmologists mean by 'big bang' is really the model that describes how the universe evolved from a hot, dense, early phase; the big bang model refers to the expansion and concomitant cooling of the universe.

To argue against the validity of the big bang theory on the basis of the existence of singularities or the violation of energy conservation is a gross misunderstanding/misinterpretation of the theory.
 
It's theorized there was no "place" at the moment of the big bang...if it happened, no time nor space existed...that's what popped into existence perhaps from some type of quantum fluctuation...but as Crowell mentions, we have no real theory for that moment itself..only the evolution which began immediately after.

Personally, I think there may be a black hole there.

Very unlikely; black holes suck things in while the big bang blew up from "nothing" and as it did so created space and time and maybe gravity and energy (radiation)...It is thought that the big bang and black holes, the only singularities given much credence in current theories, are fundamentally different...the big bang having zero curvature and black holes virtually infinite curvature (Weyl curvature)..

For other views of the early universe search here or Wikipedia for titles like Verlinde or Jacobsen or Ekyprotic or Causal Dynamic Triangulation
 

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