Is There a Ground Zero for the Big Bang?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of a "ground zero" for the Big Bang, exploring whether there is a specific point in space where the singularity occurred and the implications for space-time abnormalities. Participants examine the nature of the universe's expansion and its initial conditions, addressing both theoretical and conceptual aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that there is no single point in space where the Big Bang occurred, suggesting that the singularity was a state that existed uniformly across all of space.
  • Others argue that the universe was completely crammed with matter at the beginning and that every point was equivalent, implying that the universe did not begin at a specific location.
  • Some participants question the nature of the universe's expansion, noting that it is not akin to an explosion from a point but rather a growth of distance between all points.
  • There are claims that the universe may be infinite or finite, with no consensus on its current size or shape, leading to uncertainty about its initial conditions.
  • One participant challenges the notion that the universe was infinite at the beginning, stating that this contradicts other claims made in the discussion.
  • Several participants express uncertainty about the size of the early universe, suggesting that current theories do not provide clear answers regarding its dimensions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of the Big Bang, the size of the universe, and whether it was infinite or finite at its inception. The discussion remains unresolved with no clear consensus on these points.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved definitions of "infinite" and "finite," as well as the implications of curvature measurements on the universe's size. The discussion also reflects the complexities of relating theoretical models to observable phenomena.

Charles Brown
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If we could find the point in space where the singularity happened would you expect to find abnormalities in space time? Is there a ground zero, where there is no relative motion where everything is rushing away?
 
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There is no such point. The big bang singularity was a singularity across all of space at a single instant in time (as opposed to, say, a black hole singularity, which is a singularity at a single point in space across all of time).

The expansion of the universe isn't everything rushing away from a single point of explosion but rather the distance between everything growing over time, like a balloon being blown up.
 
would you expect to find abnormalities in space time?

yes, even thought there is no single geometric point.

Is there a ground zero, where there is no relative motion where everything is rushing away?

no.

PS: it's not classical physics, either. But quantum mechanics doesn't provide the answer, either.
 
Charles Brown said:
If we could find the point in space where the singularity happened would you expect to find abnormalities in space time? Is there a ground zero, where there is no relative motion where everything is rushing away?


When the Universe began it was completely crammed and uniformly with matter. There was no empty space whatsoever for a long time. Everyplace was like every other place.

Most scientists think the Universe was infinite when it began and still is. So it didn't begin at a point.

As far as I know there is no known reason that the Universe expands. It just does it.

We have no idea what it expands into. According to General Relativity if there is no matter or energy then there is no such thing as time or distance.

There isn't any edge or anything like that, so you can chose any point as the center. They are all the same.
 
When the Universe began it was completely crammed and uniformly with matter. There was no empty space whatsoever for a long time. Everyplace was like every other place.

Most scientists think the Universe was infinite when it began and still is. So it didn't begin at a point.

Any sources supporting these statements?

There was NO matter at the bang...Nor was the universe infinite when it began. No one knows whther the universe is infinite or finite and unbounded now.

For example:
After its initial expansion from a singularity, the Universe cooled sufficiently to allow energy to be converted into various subatomic particles. It would take thousands of years for some of these particles (protons, neutrons, and electrons) to combine and form atoms, the building blocks of matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
 
Patrick Powers
How big was this early universe that was crammed with matter?
 
Remarkable claims require remarlable proof.
 
Naty1 said:
... Nor was the universe infinite when it began. No one knows whther the universe is infinite or finite and unbounded now.

These statements are mutually contradictory. If the universe was not infinite when it began, then we DO know that it is not infinite now.
 
Charles Brown said:
Patrick Powers
How big was this early universe that was crammed with matter?

There is no way to know the size of the universe currently. If might be infinite, it might not be. However the Big Bang model doesn't care whether the universe is infinite or not. Either way it still happened everywhere in the universe.
 
  • #10
Charles Brown said:
Patrick Powers
How big was this early universe that was crammed with matter?

Nobody knows. It could have been infinite, could have been finite. In such a situation time and space are so distorted that our theories don't give answers about size, and it is not even clear what the questions should be. So I don't worry about it much.
 
  • #11
Drakkith said:
There is no way to know the size of the universe currently.

It is possible to measure the curvature of the Universe. From this it is calculated that the Universe is at least three times the size of the visible Universe, and most think it is considerably more than that.

To show that the Universe was infinite you would have to calculate a curvature of exactly zero. No way of measuring and calculating that number to infinite precision presents itself. No way of calculating ANY number that involves measurement to infinite precision presents itself.

t is possible that someone someday could convince the world that a non-flat universe leads to a contradiction, so it must be flat/infinite QED.
 
  • #12
Drakkith said:
Either way it still happened everywhere in the universe.

The Big Bang happened in the universe?

Hmmmm... :rolleyes:




OCR
 
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