Is there a link between Faith and fine writing?

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  • #26
Pythagorean
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That's pretty much the root of their question. Can we produce a secular example of Michelangelo or Bach? It may very well be that the reason they were so talented was because they were so devout.
I had a neuroscience teacher that claimed Michealangelo was secular:

[PLAIN]http://scienceblogs.com/bioephemera/paluzzisistine.jpg [Broken]

It's known that Michelangelo had access to corpses. I think my teacher was suggesting that Michelangelo was suggesting that God is in our brains.
 
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  • #27
DaveC426913
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I had a neuroscience teacher that claimed Michealangelo was secular:

[PLAIN]http://scienceblogs.com/bioephemera/paluzzisistine.jpg [Broken]

It's known that Michelangelo had access to corpses. I think my teacher was suggesting that Michelangelo was suggesting that God is in our brains.
Did you know that this was discovered very recently? By a student studying in a library? It just hit him.

What an awesome, awesome find.
 
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  • #28
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and another potential brain in Michelangelo's paintings (look at the neck)

300px-Dividing_Light_from_Darkness.jpg
 
  • #30
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In that case the correlation in the English speaking world (and what other written culture counts?) would be that Protestantism created fine writing.

Before reformation = Chaucer, rude stories and terrible spelling

After reformation = Shakespeare, restoration comedies, romantic poets, victorian novels and finally reaching it's culmination in Jefferey Archer and Dan Brown.
Ok, not to be rude but the Jeffery Archer & Dan Brown as a referance are just silly. There are so many ridiculously gereat books out there, its a 'comic tragedy' that I can't just get me a blanket in the grass & read all day everyday until i die....

(Call me bookish, i don't mind)
;~})
 
  • #32
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No, I do believe that the experts see it as legit. i.e. he did inded put it in deliberately.
Get out your book of the Sistine Chapel and look at all of the paintings one by one. He puts drapery behind many of the figures for compositional purposes. The shape of this drapery is varied from one to the next. He uses the same compositional device quite a few times always varying the shape. It's easy to see why: drapery can take any shape, so you can balance any pose you like by the strategic use of all-purpose drapery. The drapery behind God and the angels in the Creation of Adam is simply one variation of a compositional device he uses several times in the ceiling. The fact it can be seen as resembling the silhouette of a brain is as significant as spotting a cloud or stain on an old wall that looks like a brain, i.e. it means nothing. As Moonbear said in another thread on this topic, she, a neuroscientist, sees brains in curled-up, sleeping cats, and in the shape of many trees.

Look at the panel as an artist. It's got two centers of focus: Adam and God/angels. Adam is framed by the mountainside. God/angels needs a frame for balance, and to visually simplify the overly complex silhouette that would result if all the angel heads were set against the brighter sky. So, the drapery accomplishes two things: it reduces an otherwise busy visual event to a single line, and it enlarges the dark area around God so that it "weighs" roughly the same as the Adam side of the panel. If, at the end of this compositional reasoning on Michelangelo's part, you have something that suggests a brain to a neurologist 500 years later, it's completely unimportant. The drapery is not there for symbolic purposes. It serves an abstract, art fundamental function: it's about line and balance and composition, just like the other drapery you see behind some of the ignudi and some of the characters in the different scenes.
 
  • #33
TubbaBlubba
Get out your book of the Sistine Chapel and look at all of the paintings one by one. He puts drapery behind many of the figures for compositional purposes. The shape of this drapery is varied from one to the next. He uses the same compositional device quite a few times always varying the shape. It's easy to see why: drapery can take any shape, so you can balance any pose you like by the strategic use of all-purpose drapery. The drapery behind God and the angels in the Creation of Adam is simply one variation of a compositional device he uses several times in the ceiling. The fact it can be seen as resembling the silhouette of a brain is as significant as spotting a cloud or stain on an old wall that looks like a brain, i.e. it means nothing. As Moonbear said in another thread on this topic, she, a neuroscientist, sees brains in curled-up, sleeping cats, and in the shape of many trees.

Look at the panel as an artist. It's got two centers of focus: Adam and God/angels. Adam is framed by the mountainside. God/angels needs a frame for balance, and to visually simplify the overly complex silhouette that would result if all the angel heads were set against the brighter sky. So, the drapery accomplishes two things: it reduces an otherwise busy visual event to a single line, and it enlarges the dark area around God so that it "weighs" roughly the same as the Adam side of the panel. If, at the end of this compositional reasoning on Michelangelo's part, you have something that suggests a brain to a neurologist 500 years later, it's completely unimportant. The drapery is not there for symbolic purposes. It serves an abstract, art fundamental function: it's about line and balance and composition, just like the other drapery you see behind some of the ignudi and some of the characters in the different scenes.
Err... Look closer. The heads, and body parts of people conform rather neatly into the folds of a brain. It's more than a coincidence.
 
  • #34
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Err... Look closer. The heads, and body parts of people conform rather neatly into the folds of a brain. It's more than a coincidence.
There's a vague similarity in the silhouette. Nothing else matches up "rather neatly" at all. The body parts of the angels are, at best, impressionistically suggestive of the folds of a brain. That doesn't mean anything because the same can be said of any scene where he crowds a bunch of bodies together.

The-Creation-of-Adam--detail--1508-.jpg

brain2.jpg


"Brainfold texture" from "The Last Judgement":

img054.jpg
 
  • #35
Pythagorean
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Get out your book of the Sistine Chapel and look at all of the paintings one by one. He puts drapery behind many of the figures for compositional purposes. The shape of this drapery is varied from one to the next. He uses the same compositional device quite a few times always varying the shape. It's easy to see why: drapery can take any shape, so you can balance any pose you like by the strategic use of all-purpose drapery. The drapery behind God and the angels in the Creation of Adam is simply one variation of a compositional device he uses several times in the ceiling. The fact it can be seen as resembling the silhouette of a brain is as significant as spotting a cloud or stain on an old wall that looks like a brain, i.e. it means nothing. As Moonbear said in another thread on this topic, she, a neuroscientist, sees brains in curled-up, sleeping cats, and in the shape of many trees.
1) it's not just the outline. The internal structure of the brain is well represented to.

2) It's not just the shapes he painted, but also that he flayed corpses to study their anatomy.

3) All it can ever be is speculation (since forthcoming would have done a lot of harm to Michelangelo) but there's a lot of evidence suggestive of Michelangelo's disdain for the commission.

All the mars face had was a shape.

Anyway, of course I don't know whether the brain was intentional on Michelangelo's part, but I don't think it's as clear-cut a case of pareidolia as you do.
 
  • #36
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1) it's not just the outline. The internal structure of the brain is well represented to.
Not at all. The whole overlay you posted is forced. The actual shapes in the painting have to be blotted out to make the overlay work.

2) It's not just the shapes he painted, but also that he flayed corpses to study their anatomy.
He may have seen a human brain, but so what?

3) All it can ever be is speculation (since forthcoming would have done a lot of harm to Michelangelo) but there's a lot of evidence suggestive of Michelangelo's disdain for the commission.
It's thoroughly and incontrovertibly documented that he completely hated the job. It wasn't a commission, it was an offer he couldn't refuse. The pope sent armed men to bring him back to Rome. He was completely ticked off at the Pope, not at God. As I demonstrated earlier, he was never secular, ever in his life. He was a kind of fundamentalist/superstitious Catholic, he believed in damnation for sinners, miracles, and the very real wrath of God through floods and other natural disasters. He once left Florence in a hurry when a friend had a series of prophetic visions about the violent overthrow of the ruler of Florence if he didn't atone for his sins. These came true: de Medici was indeed, toppled from power. Michelangelo was, all his life, a true believer.

Anyway, of course I don't know whether the brain was intentional on Michelangelo's part, but I don't think it's as clear-cut a case of pareidolia as you do.
If it wasn't intentional, it wasn't a brain, just compositional drapery.
 
  • #37
apeiron
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Not at all. The whole overlay you posted is forced. The actual shapes in the painting have to be blotted out to make the overlay work.
I agree, it looks very forced. Pituitary gland way too big. Likewise ventricles. Sylvian fissure would not be visible like that in cross section. I can't see anything actually suggestive of the cerebellum. Nor corpus callosum. Vertebral artery out of scale. Optic chiasm is just weird. Etc, etc.

But certainly an amusing idea.
 
  • #38
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I agree, it looks very forced. Pituitary gland way too big. Likewise ventricles. Sylvian fissure would not be visible like that in cross section. I can't see anything actually suggestive of the cerebellum. Nor corpus callosum. Vertebral artery out of scale. Optic chiasm is just weird. Etc, etc.

But certainly an amusing idea.
I'm not religious but: thank God! Someone who knows what a brain looks like!
 
  • #39
DaveC426913
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I agree, it looks very forced. Pituitary gland way too big. Likewise ventricles. Sylvian fissure would not be visible like that in cross section. I can't see anything actually suggestive of the cerebellum. Nor corpus callosum. Vertebral artery out of scale. Optic chiasm is just weird. Etc, etc.

But certainly an amusing idea.
You must be saying this tongue-in-cheek. You're pointing out all things that are actually represented, just not represented perfectly.

That's kind of like:

Hey, that's the President of the USA, right there!
No, it's just some schlub that looks like him.
It looks a lot like him, and he's surrounded by body guards and getting into a diplomatic limo!
No, the president travels with fifteen security guards. I count only twelve; and they're probably not even with him, they're probably all just lawyers headed for the train. Also, the president rides in a Cadillac, never in a Limo. Yep. That's just a guy.
 
  • #40
DaveC426913
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ohhhhh, now I see it... :biggrin:

flying-spaghetti-monster.jpg
 
  • #41
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You must be saying this tongue-in-cheek. You're pointing out all things that are actually represented, just not represented perfectly.
Dave there is no cerebellum represented in the painting, nor is there a corpus callosum. And if the painting is supposed to be the interior side of the right hemisphere it looks like everything's been infested with horrible, virulent tumors:

brain-limbic.jpg


The-Creation-of-Adam--detail--1508-.jpg
 
  • #42
russ_watters
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This is too silly to be worthy of PF. Locked.
 

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