Is there a place in the Universe without any matter and energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of whether there exists a place in the universe devoid of any matter and energy. Participants explore various interpretations of "empty space," particularly in the context of subatomic particles, quantum mechanics, and the nature of vacuums.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the existence of a place without matter and energy, considering the nature of space between subatomic particles and the gaps in particle existence.
  • Another participant clarifies that subatomic particles do not occupy definite locations and that there is no meaningful "empty space" between them.
  • Some participants suggest that even in a vacuum, virtual particles constantly emerge and vanish, indicating that a true absence of matter and energy may not exist.
  • A later reply proposes that a place without energy would theoretically require absolute zero, where no radiation is present.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about whether there is a gap in the context of particles popping in and out of existence, questioning the nature of energy in such scenarios.
  • Another participant asserts that energy is ubiquitous, referencing Einstein's equation and the idea that gravitational fields exist everywhere, implying potential energy is also present.
  • One participant introduces a philosophical perspective, equating energy with a divine presence, suggesting an omnipresence of energy in the universe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach a consensus on the existence of a place without matter and energy. Multiple competing views are presented, with some arguing that such a place cannot exist while others explore the nuances of energy and vacuum states.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various interpretations of quantum mechanics and the nature of vacuums, with some participants acknowledging limitations in their understanding of these concepts.

gen6
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Hi guys, I'm just a curious non-physicist!

Is there such a place, there should be absolute/perfect lack of any matter and any kind of energy ?
What about the space between the subabotmic particles? What is it filled with ?!
Or the gap between the small amount of time when a particle disappears and another appears, this gap, is there nothing, what is it filled it ?

Or the deep space may be, where distances between even the smallest particles are considerably bigger than here on Earth? What is it between them?

The place can be very small and appear for a very short time, but is there such a place, anywhere?
 
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Hi gen6, welcome to PF!

From your question it sounds like you have a very erroneous picture about subatomic particles. They are not little billiard balls with space between them and a definite location, but rather they are quantum mechanical objects which have some probability of being in many overlapping places at once. There isn't space between subatomic particles in a meaningful sense that I know of.

If you know what a bell curve is, imagine two overlapping bell curves with some different mean. Even though there is some mean difference between the two, there is not really any "empty space" between them.
 
Hi DaleSpam!
Thank you for the prompt reply!

It seems that I did have quite an erroneous picture about the subatomic particles... I guess that even if there isn't matter somewhere there, there is energy, photons the least. I mean the space between electrons and the protons/neutrons? I guess there is some energy there?
Thank you for updating my picture!

So I guess, your answer to my question is that there isn't any place in our Universe without matter and energy?

p.s.
billiard balls LOL :smile:
 
gen6 said:
I mean the space between electrons and the protons/neutrons? I guess there is some energy there?
There isn't any space between the electrons and the nucleus. In actuality, the fact that the electron wavefunction goes into the nucleus is very important for some nuclear decay modes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_capture

If there were space between the electrons and the nucleus then this could not happen.
 
Oh, I'm sorry, I understand now. I'm still pondering on the main question though...does anybody know something in regards to that?
 
Well the first thing that springs to mind is in the absence of matter, photons etc you have a vacuum. But whilst this was classically thought to be simply an empty volume contemporary understanding is that in a vacuum virtual particles constantly pop into and out of existence, in addition the vacuum itself has a finite amount of energy.

So in answer to your question I don't think there is a place in the universe without matter and energy
 
Thank you ryan_m_b ! I guess that in the small gap between this popping in and out of existence of the particles there is only energy without matter?
 
gen6 said:
Thank you ryan_m_b ! I guess that in the small gap between this popping in and out of existence of the particles there is only energy without matter?

I'm not sure if there is a gap as we could understand it,
 
So , after all, is there such a place or not? Nobody hasn't got any idea?
 
  • #10
At the very least, in order for there to be a place in the universe that has no energy, that place would have to be at absolute zero - no impinging radiation of any sort.
 
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  • #12
  • #13
i don't know about matter but i can say there is energy everywhere

according to Albert Einstein E=mc^2 i.e. every particle in space have energy

also there no point in space were gravitational field is zero i.e. every point has potential energy

if some one is superstitious we can say that energy is nothing but god
ENERGY=GOD
energy can neither be created nor destroyed
In universe there is immense amount of energy which we can never calculate it change from on form to another
god is everywhere like energy
 

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