Is There a Present or Just an Illusion of Time?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of "present" in relation to time, exploring whether it truly exists or is merely an illusion. Participants examine the implications of perception, consciousness, and the nature of reality, touching on philosophical perspectives and psychological interpretations of time. The scope includes theoretical and conceptual considerations, with references to historical philosophical ideas.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the "present" may not exist, suggesting that all experiences are essentially historical due to the delay in perception (e.g., the brain's processing time).
  • Others argue that while our experience of events is delayed, everything occurs in the present moment, emphasizing that events themselves happen in the present despite our subjective experience.
  • A participant introduces the concept of the "specious present," indicating that the subjective experience of the present may have a duration rather than being an instantaneous moment.
  • There is a discussion about the distinction between objective reality and conscious experience, with some suggesting that our perception of time may be a psychological construct rather than a physical reality.
  • One participant references historical philosophical views, such as those of Augustine, regarding time as a mental construct, and discusses the implications of simultaneity in perception versus objective events.
  • Another point raised is the challenge of defining "present," questioning whether it can be considered a moment with duration or if it is merely a conceptual framework.
  • Participants explore the idea that without human consciousness to define it, the universe would continue to exist and change independently of our perception of the present.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence and nature of the present, with no consensus reached. Some support the idea that the present is an illusion, while others maintain that it is a real aspect of experience. The discussion remains unresolved, highlighting multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about perception, consciousness, and the nature of time, with references to philosophical concepts that may not be universally accepted. The definitions of "present" and "moment" are not uniformly agreed upon, leading to further complexity in the discussion.

  • #31
Dooh said:
There is no "present," or is there? I was writing an essay about the relevance of history the other day when this thought occurred to me. Is there really "present?" All that we see, everything that we feel and touch, could they be considered as history? For example, assuming it takes 0.1s for the brain to receive signal that you are touching a hot plate, then that instance that you felt the burn, it is already a "history" that happenbed 0.1s ago. Another one, you are thinking. But how can you tell that it is actually present? It could be just a memory of the past, one that happened less than a second ago. Every single though that we have are considered past. So does that mean that there is a past and future, but no present. Just food for thought..I will add more later.

Its not that there is "no" present, it is that there is "only" the present!

Only in the sense that it can be catagorically confirmed as the only paramiter of time that has existence?

What has "been" is the present..what will "be" is the present..and what "is" is the present?..thus there is ONLY the present.. logically?

Another mindbender to consider as an added afterthought, "imagine" if the content of the "present" did not age?..if things were constant and for example Humans did not grow and age?..clue for there to exist a PAST-tense + FUTURE- tense..then Life and elements could not evolve?..we age and evolve because the Universe(present) does not?
 
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  • #32
Is there a present?? It's Christmas in two days! There had better be a present, at least one, or I'm going to be VERY disappointed!
 
  • #33
Bob3141592 said:
Is there a present?? It's Christmas in two days! There had better be a present, at least one, or I'm going to be VERY disappointed!
What could be a better present than a future?
 
  • #34
Only the past exists

I think we must realize that only the past exists in our memory and senses. We are not able to grasp the present moment. Only after a small time <delta> that we know what has transpired. Our perceptions have <memory>. The memory lasts non-zero time. Thus if you bring the concept of <memory> into this discussion I think the problem gets solved.

Consider what would have happened if <memory> were not there. Then you would have got struck with the zeo length of time and all this discussion.
 
  • #35
Dooh said:
There is no "present," or is there? I was writing an essay about the relevance of history the other day when this thought occurred to me. Is there really "present?" All that we see, everything that we feel and touch, could they be considered as history? For example, assuming it takes 0.1s for the brain to receive signal that you are touching a hot plate, then that instance that you felt the burn, it is already a "history" that happenbed 0.1s ago. Another one, you are thinking. But how can you tell that it is actually present? It could be just a memory of the past, one that happened less than a second ago. Every single though that we have are considered past. So does that mean that there is a past and future, but no present. Just food for thought..I will add more later.

You have it backwards, there is ONLY the present.
 
  • #36
actually. if you study up on Planck time(10^-44). Virtually its the amount of time that it takes Light to move the Planck length(10^-35). which is the smallest. Its a very very small interval. But essentially. it is the smallest interval that any action can use.

So virtually. Nothing truly is in the real present.

Infact. The universe would exist for (10^-44)s before any forces or anything truly existed.

So if present was either side of the Planck time. it is still far before anything we are able to comprehend.

So its true that we have a latency. but its pretty damn small.


I think for arguments sake. What is needed is to define what present is. and what interval the present is.

You could virtually define the interval of the present to be 1 second. than regardless of any latency issues. you were in the present. But if you define the present as one position in time and not an interval i guess your right.
 
  • #37
I remember one lunchtime dialog with a colleague sometime back. She said, "I am trying to do some mediation which will enable me to remain thoughtless. I am tring hard but am not successful." I replied that it is theoretically impossible to experience the phase of being thoughtless. assume that it is possible for a mind to be in a state which is thoughtless. The mind to experience the state of thoughtlessness has to keep probing itself to check any thought contained by it. This very process would generate a thought like, "I am thoughtless now". Which is a thought anyway. So how do you remain thoughtless and experice it. It may only be done by an external device (like MRI scan etc) which probes brains activity and may lead to conclusion that the subject under study was thoughtless during time interval specified.
Just this way, the question of present. When you probe a thought whether it is present or past or future, it becomes a matter of past. So what we call as present is actually an arbitrarily wide slice of time from the past and from immediate future. What I may be calling as present in "At present I am a software Engineer at XYZ Inc." means that since sometime back I am working as SE at XYZ and have not decided to quit as yet. Thus the chunck of time could contain next 24 hrs of future and maybe last 24 hrs of past for the subject. when we talk about the total solar eclipse we say that the apprant size of sun and moon as seen from Earth is more or less identical (half a degree) for the present era. Here present may mean thousands of year of the past and another housand year of the future.
When I plan for next day, I have to keep happenings of the past few days in mind to shape or plan the next day. I may have to cancel my plans depending on the outcome of some of the processes which happen today.

Thus strictly speaking there is no present. The present has only been borrowed from a few momnets from the past and few moments from the future.
 
  • #38
After an exstensive search, I have concluded that the only place one can locate 'the present' is in one's own mind when one is conscious. Anyone else have a different search result?
 
  • #39
Of course! You will find the "present" at dictionaries, thesauri and 'net! Ha Ha Ha
 
  • #40
raj_vad said:
Of course! You will find the "present" at dictionaries, thesauri and 'net! Ha Ha Ha

You are right. I did find "present" where you suggested. Thanks.
 
  • #41
there is present, but everything what heppens , it heppens in no-zero time, so when you're thinking about present you'are thinking about the past, when you want to think about the present, you must thnik about the future
 
  • #42
I personally like to think of the present as our current frame of consciousness in the slow movement through a four-dimensional hyper-universe.
 

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