Is there a serious risk to airliners from satellite debris 12 miles up?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the potential risks posed to airliners by satellite debris falling from orbit, particularly at altitudes around 12 miles. Participants explore the implications of increasing satellite decommissioning and the likelihood of debris surviving atmospheric re-entry.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express concern about the risk to airliners from satellite debris, questioning whether small objects could survive re-entry and reach the 12-mile altitude.
  • Others argue that the amount of debris is negligible compared to the vastness of the sky, suggesting that the risk is minimal.
  • One participant points out that airliners typically operate at lower altitudes, around seven miles, and suggests that meteors may pose a greater risk than satellite debris.
  • Another viewpoint emphasizes that the risk to people on the ground from falling airplanes is more significant than the risk to airliners from falling debris.
  • A participant discusses the dynamics of satellite re-entry, noting that most burning occurs before reaching 12 miles, implying that if debris reaches this altitude, it is more likely to hit the ground than an aircraft.
  • One contributor provides a statistical perspective, calculating the area covered by planes in flight and concluding that the risk to airplanes is close to zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the level of risk posed by satellite debris to airliners. Multiple competing views are presented, with some arguing for a significant risk and others asserting that the risk is minimal or negligible.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include assumptions about the behavior of satellite debris during re-entry, the definitions of risk, and the statistical calculations regarding air traffic density.

jeffinbath
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More and more satellites will be at the end of their lives over the next few years and falling out of orbit. Is there not a risk to the thousands of high flying airliners if these small objects have still not fully burned up by the time they hit the 12 mile high region do you think?
 
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That's still a tiny amount if debris in a vast sky.
 
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I thought airliners went only seven miles up.

There is more risk from meteors, I would think.
 
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I think there is more risk to people on the ground from airplanes falling out of the sky.
 
What fraction of a satellite burns up in the last 12 miles? Supposing it is moving at orbital speeds and going at more-or-less vertical, that last 12 miles is going to be round about 2 seconds. So some of will burn up in the last 12 miles. But it has come in from LEO which is round about 120 miles. Or higher. The bulk of any burning has already happened. If it makes it to 12 miles it probably hits the ground.

So the differential risk at 12 miles is small. That is, the chance of getting hit in an airplane at 12 miles is only very slightly greater than on the ground.
 
Despite the word "serious" in the title, I don't think the OP made a serious attempt.

There are around 10,000 planes in the air at any one time. The area covered by a narrowbody plane is about 500m2. So 5 km2 of the earth's surface has an airplane over it. That's 1/10,000,000 of the Earth.

That's the starting point - things just get smaller from there.
 
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Vanadium 50 said:
Despite the word "serious" in the title, I don't think the OP made a serious attempt.

There are around 10,000 planes in the air at any one time. The area covered by a narrowbody plane is about 500m2. So 5 km2 of the earth's surface has an airplane over it. That's 1/10,000,000 of the Earth.

That's the starting point - things just get smaller from there.

Close to zero risks to airplanes.
 
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