Is There Any Way to Confirm Your Existence?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the philosophical question of existence, particularly whether individuals can confirm their own existence or the existence of others. Participants explore concepts of reality, perception, and the nature of knowledge, touching on solipsism and the implications of living in a potentially illusory world.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the ability to question existence implies a form of self-awareness, suggesting that if one can doubt their existence, they must exist in some capacity.
  • Others propose that existence may be subjective and dependent on individual perception, questioning whether reality can be universally defined.
  • A participant argues that if something does not exist, it cannot question its existence, implying that self-awareness is a proof of existence.
  • Some express skepticism about the existence of anything beyond personal experience, suggesting that all perceived reality could be an illusion or a simulation.
  • There are references to philosophical concepts, such as Descartes' "Cogito, ergo sum," to support the idea that doubt and thought are indicators of existence.
  • One participant raises the idea that if existence is an illusion, distinguishing it from a "real" existence may be impossible, thus rendering the question of existence potentially meaningless.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that knowledge derived from external sources is only valuable if existence is real, highlighting the importance of confirming reality.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a range of perspectives on the nature of existence, with no clear consensus reached. Some express certainty about their own existence while others remain skeptical about the existence of anything beyond personal perception.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of defining existence and the challenges in proving the reality of anything outside one's own consciousness. The discussion reflects a variety of philosophical positions without resolving the underlying questions.

  • #31
baywax said:
Its frustrating to me and that's why I'm trying to bring some sort of conclusion to it. Is that possible?
A lot of philosophers have wasted an inordinate amount of time trying to do the same thing. You might look at some of Descarte's philosophy ("I think therefore I am") for a start. I don't think anyone has a really universally satisfactory conclusion, but I really didn't look into it too deeply.

Frankly, I think worrying about solipsism is a big waste of time; surely you have more important things to be frustrated about :smile:
 
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  • #32
DaleSpam said:
A lot of philosophers have wasted an inordinate amount of time trying to do the same thing. You might look at some of Descarte's philosophy ("I think therefore I am") for a start. I don't think anyone has a really universally satisfactory conclusion, but I really didn't look into it too deeply.

Frankly, I think worrying about solipsism is a big waste of time; surely you have more important things to be frustrated about :smile:

Hee:smile:

But I think the answer lays in neurophysics... I have a physicist friend running the FMRIs for a neuroscience lab and I have a feeling he and I plus beer and his homemade telescope will put an end to this minor abrasion.:mad:
 
  • #33
prtcool said:
I am sure of my own existence as I do have a sense of self. But the question that I am asking is a rather vague one. Do you exist?

I have spent the last 6 hours on my bed trying to figure out some code. Is that a good enough answer?
 
  • #34
WarPhalange said:
I have spent the last 6 hours on my bed trying to figure out some code. Is that a good enough answer?

That's something no one else can verify.

If we get a response about Britney Spears from you and 15 others this means Britney exists and that you exist and it verifies the existence of Britney.

If the OP tells me I've simply drummed up a non-existent Britney in my own head then found 16 other non-existent but compliant answers concerning her existence then the OP needs help.
 
  • #35
baywax said:
That's something no one else can verify.

Other way, pal.
 
  • #36
minorwork said:
A Theory of Everything would have an explanation.

If you mean an explanation using mathematics, then there might be a problem. Mathematics would be included in 'A Theory of Everything' if 'Everything' truly means everything in existence.

I'm thinking about this and I know it might sound crazy to some:

Existence and Non-Existence are opposite, but related in that way. If you want to explain these ideas using mathematics (which scientific laws are based on), couldn't you compare Existence to infinity and Non-Existence to zero? But how would you explain the concepts of infinity and zero without using more mathematics? It seems like the only way to explain Existence or Non-Existence is to use descriptive language at best.

*I compared Existence to infinity because: if there is absolutely nothing, then something can't come out of that. So if there is something, then it must have always existed.
 
  • #37
ucf-fisher21 said:
If you mean an explanation using mathematics, then there might be a problem. Mathematics would be included in 'A Theory of Everything' if 'Everything' truly means everything in existence.
If you want to explain these ideas using mathematics (which scientific laws are based on), couldn't you compare Existence to infinity and Non-Existence to zero?
Scientific laws are based on mathematics, you say? Certainly math is a useful tool. Empirical evidence should guide the math.
"Since the mathematicians have invaded the theory of relativity, I do not understand it myself any more." Einstein

"To the extent that the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not true; and to the extent that they are true, they do not refer to reality." Einstein

"I do not deny the importance of math, however, it's just that I think that science should come first! Abstract math seems to be the lubricant for hammering square pegs into round holes." Einstein
And of the human experience:
Once Einstein said that the problem of the Now worried him seriously.
He explained that the experience of the Now means something special for man, something essentially different from the past and the future, but that this important difference does not and cannot occur within physics. That this experience cannot be grasped by science seems to him a matter of painful but inevitable resignation. I remarked that all that occurs objectively can be described in science: on the one hand the temporal sequence of events is described in physics; and, on the other hand, the peculiarities of man's experiences with respect to time, including his different attitude toward past, present and future, can be described and (in principle) explained in psychology. But Einstein thought that scientific descriptions cannot possibly satisfy our human needs; that there is something essential about the Now which is just outside of the realm of science.

If any thinks he is going to end this discussion, he may want to consider himself a closet solipsist. Or a moderator that can really end it.
 
  • #38
minorwork,

the Einstein quotes you posted are very interesting and logical ideas.:smile:

All my posts have been logical and respectful towards others. I have replied to other people's replies in this topic and they have replied to mine, with everyone being respectful towards one another. I don't appreciate you throwing personal accusations at me. I don't deserve this.
 
  • #39
----Re: I exist; but, do you exist?

There's a problem that does sometimes happen as a person becomes 'more' self-aware, in that, the world seems to be circling around 'them'---meaning, they become self-centered and/or overly self-conscious for awhile.

This is usually transitory if the 'self' develops properly. It may takes years to develop through. A lot of TV commercials are concerned/made from this perspective--in that, 'what we are making and selling is made for 'you' to make 'your' life better'--appealing directly to the ego.

When the 'self' becomes 'aware' that other 'selfs' exist around them, it usually indicates a sign of maturity, and can progress where empathy (an awareness of the 'feeling' of other 'selfs') can be incorporated as knowledge that the 'self' in only one of many 'selfs' existing around them, all with different needs.

It goes from, 'I exist; and, therefore, I recognize that you exist, also'.
 
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  • #40
ucf-fisher21 said:
minorwork,

the Einstein quotes you posted are very interesting and logical ideas.:smile:

All my posts have been logical and respectful towards others. I have replied to other people's replies in this topic and they have replied to mine, with everyone being respectful towards one another. I don't appreciate you throwing personal accusations at me. I don't deserve this.
You are correct. My last sentences did not in any way apply to you but toward another that after 10 months of silence on the subject posts with the idea of ending it. I should have been more specific. Apologies.:blushing: And to the intended.:rolleyes:

On the subject of theories and queries where math plays such a big role there is LIGO. In spite of having never detected a gravity wave, proceeds to announce properties of the pulsar in the Crab Nebula based on the absence of gravity wave detection.

Bad science but I can see the need to say something to keep jobs and funding. What is this to do with mine or thine existence? If basic properties of the very small and very large are to be seen as pregnant with the roots of consciousness, science must be clear in distinguishing between what humans are capable of knowing and that about which our knowledge purports to model. Test, test, test. I did not understand clearly your statement on math as the basis for science. I, probably mistakenly, figured you were putting too little emphasis on the empirical data.
 
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  • #41
rewebster said:
----Re: I exist; but, do you exist?

There's a problem that does sometimes happen as a person becomes 'more' self-aware, in that, the world seems to be circling around 'them'---meaning, they become self-centered and/or overly self-conscious for awhile.

This is usually transitory if the 'self' develops properly. It may takes years to develop through. A lot of TV commercials are concerned/made from this perspective--it that, 'what we are making and selling is made for 'you' to make 'your' life better'.

When the 'self' becomes 'aware' that other 'selfs' exist around them, it usually indicates a sign of maturity, and can progress where empathy (an awareness of the 'feeling' of other 'selfs') can be incorporated as knowledge that the 'self' in only one of many 'selfs' existing around them, all with different needs.

It goes from, 'I exist; and, therefore, I recognize that you exist, also'.
Very pragmatic. Sometimes, in hindsight, I fail the maturity test. Hoping for foresight.

The fall of '85 my son became 2 years old. I had heard of the "terrible 2s" but was determined to keep an open mind. There is something to it though. This seems the beginning of that solipsist little being that I have to deal with for the contracted period. A little god demanding, at his pleasure, the just deserts of his being in the physical. Wow. Even now I am still in a limited form of shock.:smile:
 
  • #42
minorwork said:
Very pragmatic. Sometimes, in hindsight, I fail the maturity test. Hoping for foresight.

The fall of '85 my son became 2 years old. I had heard of the "terrible 2s" but was determined to keep an open mind. There is something to it though. This seems the beginning of that solipsist little being that I have to deal with for the contracted period. A little god demanding, at his pleasure, the just deserts of his being in the physical. Wow. Even now I am still in a limited form of shock.:smile:

do you mean, 'the loosing of 'self' for a greater calling'?
 
  • #43
rewebster said:
do you mean, 'the loosing of 'self' for a greater calling'?
He was a surprise. You use an interesting choice of words. My shoulders ached from the load of responsibility for a while after the announcement of his imminent arrival, not to mention when he was delivered. I retain a bit of my prior solipsist life even today. A commercial for rum describes me. I still have a little "Captain" in me.

Your term, 'the loosing of self', I save for a more private mystic experience I'll call spiritual traveling. http://www.spiritualtravel.org/spiritualtravel.html

By the way, is your spelling "loosing" intentional? I would think you meant "losing" but I can't see if you're grinning or not.
 
  • #44
2. loose - turn loose or free from restraint; "let loose mines"; "Loose terrible plagues upon humanity"
let loose, unleash
let go, let go of, release, relinquish - release, as from one's grip; "Let go of the door handle, please!"; "relinquish your grip on the rope--you won't fall"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/loosing

"relinquish your grip on the 'self'--you won't fall"




To me, 'losing' would be the loss of self---which isn't the case
 
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  • #45
rewebster said:
2. loose - turn loose or free from restraint; "let loose mines"; "Loose terrible plagues upon humanity"
let loose, unleash
let go, let go of, release, relinquish - release, as from one's grip; "Let go of the door handle, please!"; "relinquish your grip on the rope--you won't fall"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/loosing

"relinquish your grip on the 'self'--you won't fall"

To me, 'losing' would be the loss of self---which isn't the case
Gotcha. Agreed. Expanding. Presupposing the inhibition of mind's functioning by tiring mind to the point of collapse by intense concentration, and thus experiencing reality, the noumena, without the brain/mind's classification/interpretation systems running, would I be correct in saying I was 'losing' my mind, and 'loosing' self from the mind/body?
 
  • #46
I think " 'losing' one's mind " is like the standard def. of losing the reality of the situation---loosing one's self in 'a' situation, as in most concentration or with your child is the adapting of the 'self'

---I guess, it depends on 'how tired the mind is'---whether it's 'loosing' or 'losing'


Archimedes was 'lost' in concentration to 'not know' and comprehend the 'reality' of the situation--

http://www.schoolforchampions.com/biographies/archimedes2.htm
 
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  • #47
Because of the nature of our existence, in our eyes (our conscience), I think we all question our existence and hope there is meaning to our existence. We want to believe that we will never become non-existent. I think this is human nature. Since we can't PROVE if there is 'meaning' to our existence (our conscience), we should all just enjoy life and hope for the best. :smile:

Personally I don't like thinking too much about this existence stuff. It's confusing :confused:
 
  • #48
ucf-fisher21 said:
Because of the nature of our existence, in our eyes (our conscience), I think we all question our existence and hope there is meaning to our existence. We want to believe that we will never become non-existent. I think this is human nature. Since we can't PROVE if there is 'meaning' to our existence (our conscience), we should all just enjoy life and hope for the best. :smile:

Personally I don't like thinking too much about this existence stuff. It's confusing :confused:

'Thinking' about proving whether or not there is 'meaning to our existence' is one path you can take, or not take, too.
 
  • #49
ucf-fisher21 said:
Personally I don't like thinking too much about this existence stuff. It's confusing :confused:

And frustrating
 
  • #50
treborly45 said:
How can you be sure that you really exist?


Yah, how do you know you really exist! How do you know what you remember from yesterday really happened, they are simply memories. How can you be so sure your memories are real and not fabricated by some unknown force beyond our comprehension? Say you have a scar on your body and you say that’s proof that your memories are true, it could simply be a memories made up to explain away the scar.
 
  • #51
Eric DMC said:
Yah, how do you know you really exist! How do you know what you remember from yesterday really happened, they are simply memories. How can you be so sure your memories are real and not fabricated by some unknown force beyond our comprehension? Say you have a scar on your body and you say that’s proof that your memories are true, it could simply be a memories made up to explain away the scar.

The keeping of a dream journal will reveal things, at a later date, of which you will be amazed of your own writing. Or in a daily journal describe what you did at a particular place and event. A year later write down, by memory, the scene as you did the first time. Compare the two. Whoa. Is continuity thru time a feeling?
 
  • #52
Eric DMC said:
Yah, how do you know you really exist! How do you know what you remember from yesterday really happened, they are simply memories. How can you be so sure your memories are real and not fabricated by some unknown force beyond our comprehension? Say you have a scar on your body and you say that’s proof that your memories are true, it could simply be a memories made up to explain away the scar.

Yeah, gee, you're already starting to fade from my memory.
 
  • #53
Am I a figment of your imagination? What would you be doing if you weren't thinking?...Thinking is imagination...
 
  • #54
Unthinkable said:
Am I a figment of your imagination? What would you be doing if you weren't thinking?...Thinking is imagination...
You have to start somewhere. What is real? What is illusion?
 
  • #55
prtcool said:
I exist but do you exist?

I ask you the same question.
 
  • #56
prtcool said:
I am sure of my own existence as I do have a sense of self. But the question that I am asking is a rather vague one. Do you exist? If the answer is no then the very purpose of asking questions from the non existent is useless. Even all the solutions you give to me are useless. Even the scriptures like the Bible, the Gita also are of no help(afterall even they do not exist.)

What if I am seeing a virtual movie, in which all you people are virtual softwares. All the things that I believe in, all the past that has been told to me, even my own body, everything is just an illusion. I am talking of a supermatrix in which only one man is trapped in an illusion and everything else in the matrix is fake.

Now the question is, "Is there any way to confirm your existence?"

Hi,

'guess the easiest way to say yes is that "I", existing entity as "i" type this reply, can ask myself the very same question... "Is there any way to confirm your existence"...


regards, VE

Edit: sorry Lightbulb... just barged in...
 
  • #57
Just don't croak OK? Gee, I like being here and when you go, I'm gone. So take good care of yourself. It's such a done deal I wonder that you can get life insurance.
 
  • #58
minorwork said:
Just don't croak OK? Gee, I like being here and when you go, I'm gone. So take good care of yourself. It's such a done deal I wonder that you can get life insurance.

nice metaphor... i don't want to die either... not now... so much to take care of...



VE
 
  • #59
And atone for.
 
  • #60
wow, you know how different the meaning of 'atone' is between french and english ...?

french : lacking force, vitality...

english: to become reconciled, in harmony...

VE
 

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