Is There Such a Thing as Dark Time?

[geelsu]

We've got dark everything else: matter, energy, etc. Another thread even mentioned something about dark anti-matter. What about time? Does anyone know of a working model or any theoretical research about dark time.

 

[Flatland]

What exactly do you mean by "dark time?"

 

[geelsu]

I really don't know what I mean. I haven't even formulated a descent hypothesis. I don't think I would call it anti-time or time flowing in reverse. I'm just chewing on the concept a bit and trying to decide if there is even a possibility for it. If all the dark matter is there, unseen, and dark energy models continue to refine, then what perhaps a dark time might also be "out there."

 

[Pengwuino]

I really don't know what I mean. I haven't even formulated a descent hypothesis. I don't think I would call it anti-time or time flowing in reverse. I'm just chewing on the concept a bit and trying to decide if there is even a possibility for it. If all the dark matter is there, unseen, and dark energy models continue to refine, then what perhaps a dark time might also be "out there."

Don't get worked up on these names that Physicists think up for various phenomenon that we observe. We could have easily called it dark energy and dark matter something else and no one would have thought there's a relationship between the two (which there is not) or any family of "dark" phenomenon that needs explaining. It's just a name.

 

[geelsu]

Excellent response. Thank you. Kinda like blue moon and blue jeans, two totally unrelated things that just happen to have a blue descriptive. Alas, I bid adieu to dark time ... unless I have a really bad weekend. :)

 

[voxilla]

It's very fashionable to call anything we don't get a grip on to be dark.

 

[SHISHKABOB]

same thing with black holes, they aren't really holes, or at least I don't think they are "necessarily" or whatever

regardless, the reason why we call them holes is because if you looked at one, all you'd see is a "hole" in the background, and it'd be black

 

[salvestrom]

no one would have thought there's a relationship between the two (which there is not)

Dark Fluid. Tries to explain space as a fluid with dark energy and dark matter two things caused by the fluids behaviour in the absence or presence of matter.

Not saying I'm a proponent. Not even sure if the paper I came across was published.

If dark time existed it would likely be a descriptive for a region of space in which time doesn't work the same as everywhere else. Not likely to ever be found, but there you go.

 

[DaleSwanson]

As has been pointed out, the 'dark' in dark matter or dark energy is really more of 'unknown'. As in, matter which is evidently there, but we have not been able to observe. In order for the concept of dark time to be introduced we'd have to discover evidence for time that should exist but we had not directly observed and could not explain.

 

[Oldfart]

All of which makes me wonder about dark space, and dark spacetime. Where dark spacetime curves away from massive bodies unless they are made of dark matter. Makes my head hurt...

 

[phinds]

You should be careful with your terminology. There IS a "dark time" in the history of the universe (after the surface of last scattering and before the creation of stars) so that term is already taken in cosmology. You'd have to call what you're talking about "strange time" or something.

 

[salvestrom]

You should be careful with your terminology. There IS a "dark time" in the history of the universe (after the surface of last scattering and before the creation of stars) so that term is already taken in cosmology. You'd have to call what you're talking about "strange time" or something.

Don't they call that the 'dark ages'? I guess since one's a reference to post-roman britain and the other's got a tenuous link to Star Wars I know which I'd go with.

I suppose it's too similar either way.

Time's already a pretty strange thing, though.

 

[Chronos]

I believe the period just after recombination is referred to as the cosmic dark ages.

 

[phinds]

I believe the period just after recombination is referred to as the cosmic dark ages.

Yeah, I realize now that I saw a reference early on that did call it the "dark time" but I believe "dark ages" is the more common name, now that you mention it. Thanks.

 

[CosmicEye]

I think its an interesting question, but time is not a physical object that we can see

 

[phinds]

I think its an interesting question, but time is not a physical object that we can see

Can't see quarks either. Should we ignore them? We can measure both, so why ignore one and not the other? Or was that not your point?

 

[MrGodParticle]

All of which makes me wonder about dark space, and dark spacetime. Where dark spacetime curves away from massive bodies unless they are made of dark matter. Makes my head hurt...

im pretty sure that if there is time in space at all, then it would be dark spacetime because space is all dark and it is made up to dark fluid and dark matter but I am an amateur so I am not exactly sure

 

[phinds]

im pretty sure that if there is time in space at all, then it would be dark spacetime because space is all dark and it is made up to dark fluid and dark matter but I am an amateur so I am not exactly sure

I do not wish to be rude, but you seem to be tossing out words in ways that have no relevance to actual physics, just because the word "dark" has other connotations in the English language and makes them seem similar if you have no idea what they mean in physics.

I see you are new here, so probably you have misunderstood the purpose of this forum. Folks here are very friendly and get quite lighthearted sometimes, but basically this is a serious physics forum and just tossing out poorly formed statements is not really a good idea.

 

[MrGodParticle]

I do not wish to be rude, but you seem to be tossing out words in ways that have no relevance to actual physics, just because the word "dark" has other connotations in the English language and makes them seem similar if you have no idea what they mean in physics.

I see you are new here, so probably you have misunderstood the purpose of this forum. Folks here are very friendly and get quite lighthearted sometimes, but basically this is a serious physics forum and just tossing out poorly formed statements is not really a good idea.

Actually, not to be rude but i got the "dark fluid" portion of my response from this forum. So go burn the individual that provided that information. Also i did not misunderstand the purpose of this forum, but thank you for your concern.

 

[salvestrom]

Actually, not to be rude but i got the "dark fluid" portion of my response from this forum. So go burn the individual that provided that information. Also i did not misunderstand the purpose of this forum, but thank you for your concern.

/cough... that was me. I did specify, however, it was from a paper, possibly not even published.

 

[shifty88]

i think op means night time.

 

[phinds]

i think op means night time.

Well, you might want to think some more. In the context of this thread, it's pretty clear he's not talking about night.

 

[shifty88]

Well, you might want to think some more. In the context of this thread, it's pretty clear he's not talking about night.

I must point out that i was making a joke, he obviously doesn't mean night time... what's wrong with you.
I have no idea what 'dark time' could be or why physics would require the concept of dark time to begin with.

Even the Op doesn't know what he's on about.

 

[phinds]

I must point out that i was making a joke, he obviously doesn't mean night time... what's wrong with you.
I have no idea what 'dark time' could be or why physics would require the concept of dark time to begin with.

Even the Op doesn't know what he's on about.

DOH !

I was in a foul mood this morning and my sense of humor hadn't kicked in. Apologies.

 

[shifty88]

no apologies necessary. Just thought i should point out I'm not a total dunce :D

 

[salvestrom]

I must point out that i was making a joke, he obviously doesn't mean night time... what's wrong with you.
I have no idea what 'dark time' could be or why physics would require the concept of dark time to begin with.

Even the Op doesn't know what he's on about.

I think the OP's intent is to suggest a time-related phenomenon, as yet undiscovered. If energy and matter both have poorly understood dark cousins, there's no need to assume that dark time neither exists or doesn't, or to ignore it. Who knows, a postulation about an unknown time effect might turn out to be quite testable. Time dilation was.

 

[shifty88]

As far as I am aware Dark matter was thought up after the discovery that there isn't enough mass in galaxies to hold them together.
Dark energy was used to explain the acceleration of the expansion of space.

What odd unexplainable observations are their that would need a theory like dark time.
None that I know of, which doesn't rule out the possibility, it doesn't seem like science to me

 

[salvestrom]

As far as I am aware Dark matter was thought up after the discovery that there isn't enough mass in galaxies to hold them together.
Dark energy was used to explain the acceleration of the expansion of space.

What odd unexplainable observations are their that would need a theory like dark time.
None that I know of, which doesn't rule out the possibility, it doesn't seem like science to me

Your statement about dark matter is absolutely correct, of course, but the point is that until 1970's they didn't even know there was something odd about the rotational speed of galaxies. Who knows what odd things are as yet unobserved. I agree, though, that there are no known unknowns that might be explained by some new, odd behaviour of time.

 

[Oldfart]

Your statement about dark matter is absolutely correct, of course, but the point is that until 1970's they didn't even know there was something odd about the rotational speed of galaxies. Who knows what odd things are as yet unobserved. I agree, though, that there are no known unknowns that might be explained by some new, odd behaviour of time.

What? By any reasonable measure, cosmology's greatest all-time unknown involves T=0, at the start of the universe. If dark time (or whatever you want to call it) theory could explain how the universe came to exist without having a beginning, it would surely represent mankind's crowning scientific achievement. Loop quantum time, anyone?

 

[salvestrom]

What? By any reasonable measure, cosmology's greatest all-time unknown involves T=0, at the start of the universe. If dark time (or whatever you want to call it) theory could explain how the universe came to exist without having a beginning, it would surely represent mankind's crowning scientific achievement. Loop quantum time, anyone?

Well, there you go. Case closed. T=0 is dark time, because we haven't the faintest idea what happened or where it came from. In fairness we already have a name for that. Time. I feel kinda silly at the moment 'cause I've spent a lot of mental energy lately considering Time and what happened at 0 of it.

 

[shifty88]

I feel silly too.