Is This a Lorentz Transformation in Special Relativity?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion centers around a problem in special relativity involving coordinate transformations between inertial frames. The original poster presents a scenario where two velocity boosts are applied sequentially, first in the x-direction and then in the y-direction, and poses questions about whether this constitutes a Lorentz transformation, the resulting transformation matrix, and the implications of reversing the order of the boosts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the nature of the velocity boost v_y, questioning whether it refers to the velocity of the K'' frame with respect to the K frame or the K' frame. There is also discussion about the invariance of ds² and how it relates to proving the transformations are Lorentz transformations. Some participants suggest checking the invariance as a method of validation.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and clarifications regarding the interpretation of the problem. Some guidance has been offered regarding the nature of Lorentz transformations and the relationship between the transformations when the order of boosts is reversed. However, there is no explicit consensus on the interpretation of v_y or the implications of the transformations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of clearly defining the velocities involved in the transformations and the implications of reversing the order of the boosts. There is an acknowledgment of the potential complexity in understanding the transformations due to the assumptions made about the frames of reference.

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Homework Statement


Question as stated: In special relativity consider the following coordinate transformation between inertial frames: first make a velocity boost v_x in the x-direction, then make a velocity boost v_y in the y-direction. 1) Is this a Lorentz transformation? 2) Find the matrix of this transformation. 3) Consider the boosts in inverse order - is it the same transformation?


Homework Equations


\beta_i = \frac{v_i}{c}
\gamma_i = \frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v_i^2}{c^2}}}


The Attempt at a Solution


I use the c = 1 convention.

I wrote down the two transformations as:

x-direction:
<br /> \begin{pmatrix}<br /> t&#039; \\<br /> x&#039;\\<br /> y&#039; \\<br /> z&#039;<br /> \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix}<br /> \gamma_x &amp; -\beta_x \gamma_x &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\<br /> -\beta_x \gamma_x &amp; \gamma_x &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 1 &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 1<br /> \end{pmatrix} \begin{pmatrix}<br /> t\\<br /> x\\<br /> y\\<br /> z<br /> \end{pmatrix}<br />
and for the y-direction:
<br /> \begin{pmatrix}<br /> t&#039;&#039; \\<br /> x&#039;&#039;\\<br /> y&#039;&#039; \\<br /> z&#039;&#039;<br /> \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix}<br /> \gamma_y &amp; 0 &amp; -\beta_y \gamma_y &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; 1 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\<br /> -\beta_y \gamma_y &amp; 0 &amp; \gamma_y &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 1<br /> \end{pmatrix} \begin{pmatrix}<br /> t&#039; \\<br /> x&#039; \\<br /> y&#039; \\<br /> z&#039;<br /> \end{pmatrix}<br />
and combined these to get
<br /> \begin{pmatrix}<br /> t&#039;&#039; \\<br /> x&#039;&#039;\\<br /> y&#039;&#039; \\<br /> z&#039;&#039;<br /> \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix}<br /> \gamma_y &amp; 0 &amp; -\beta_y \gamma_y &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; 1 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\<br /> -\beta_y \gamma_y &amp; 0 &amp; \gamma_y &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 1<br /> \end{pmatrix}\begin{pmatrix}<br /> \gamma_x &amp; -\beta_x \gamma_x &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\<br /> -\beta_x \gamma_x &amp; \gamma_x &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 1 &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 1<br /> \end{pmatrix} \begin{pmatrix}<br /> t\\<br /> x\\<br /> y\\<br /> z<br /> \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix}<br /> \gamma_x \gamma_y &amp; -\beta_x \gamma_x \gamma_y &amp; -\beta_y \gamma_y &amp; 0 \\<br /> -\beta_x \gamma_x &amp; \gamma_x &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\<br /> -\beta_y \gamma_x \gamma_y &amp; \beta_x \beta_y \gamma_x \gamma_y &amp; \gamma_y &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 1<br /> \end{pmatrix} \begin{pmatrix}<br /> t\\<br /> x\\<br /> y\\<br /> z<br /> \end{pmatrix}<br />
This should be the answer to question 2).

If I inverse the order of the boosts I notice that the resulting transformation matrix is the transpose of the above matrix.

As the transformation matrix for the two cases in question are not equal the two transformations are not the same? (question 3)

I am uncertain on how to explain whether or not the resulting transformations are Lorentz transformations.

why do the question headlines automatically appear each time I preview my post?
 
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First of all, I am uncomfortable with the vy part of the question.
What is vy?
Is that the velocity of the K'' frame origin with respect to the initial K frame?
Or is that the velocity of the K'' frame with respect to the K' frame?
Clarifying this may help.

The resulting transformations are each Lorentz transformations.
There are many ways to prove that, depending on which starting point is assumed.
If the Lorentz transform is defined as a linear transformation that keeps the ds² invariant, then the proof is obvious.

A more algebraic would try to indentify the resulting transformation as a boost along a certain resultant velocity.

Finally, note also the relation Lt(v) = L-1(-v) .
The transformations are different, but nevertheless closely related.
 
Last edited:
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Thank you for your reply.

I am, however, unsure of the interpretation of the vy part of the assignment. The exercise is written as in the OP. In my solution I have assumed vy was K'' with respect to K'.

Of course I could check whether or not ds² is invariant with respect to the double transformation! Thanks for the hint (and now I'm sad that I didn't figure this out for myself).

The final relation between the two is the same one I noticed while carrying out the calculations. Different transformations though as one matrix entry switches place.
 
You made a choice for the meaning of vy.
You simply need to keep that in mind.
Of course if you reverse the order of the boost, you need to switch the meanings too.
 
If you learned about velocity composition in SR, then you could make use of of this knowledge.
 

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