Is this Proof of Equality Correct?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the transitive property of equality, specifically the statement: if x = y and y = z, then x = z. Participants express curiosity about the correctness of a proposed proof that utilizes cases based on the ordering of numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the validity of using ordering in the proof, questioning whether it is appropriate to assume properties of numbers when discussing equality in a more abstract sense. There is a focus on the implications of transitivity and the definitions of equality.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants raising important questions about the assumptions made in the proof and the nature of equality itself. Some guidance is offered regarding the properties of equality, but no consensus has been reached on the proof's validity.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of potential constraints regarding the definitions of equality and the nature of the elements involved (e.g., whether they are numbers or more abstract entities). The discussion also touches on the uniqueness of zero as a possible factor in the proof.

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Homework Statement


Prove the following:

If x=y and y=z then x=z.

Now, this seems very obvious, and it is without a doubt correct. However, I am curious as to if the following proof is correct.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution



Assume x does not equal to z, so that means two cases:

Case 1) x>z, so z-x<0 and since x=y, z-y<0 which is a contradiction.

Case 2) z>x, so x-z<0 and since y=z or x=y ( I can use either), that means x-y<0 which is a contradiction. Therefore it has to be that if x=y and y=z then x=z.
 
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Mathematicsresear said:

Homework Statement


Prove the following:

If x=y and y=z then x=z.

Now, this seems very obvious, and it is without a doubt correct. However, I am curious as to if the following proof is correct.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution



Assume x does not equal to z, so that means two cases:

Case 1) x>z, so z-x<0 and since x=y, z-y<0 which is a contradiction.

Case 2) z>x, so x-z<0 and since y=z or x=y ( I can use either), that means x-y<0 which is a contradiction. Therefore it has to be that if x=y and y=z then x=z.
I'm not sure whether you can use the ordering. If ##x,y,z## weren't numbers, the transitivity of ##"="## would still be given. Transitivity is the name of the assertion you want to prove. It somehow transports the burden simply to somewhere else. Normally transitivity is part of a definition, a requirement. Thus the question is: what does ##"="## mean? Do you have a definition for it?

You have in principle shown: ##x=y \wedge y=z \wedge x\neq z\,\Rightarrow\, y\neq z##, because we can substitute ##y## for ##x## and then have a contradiction. But isn't this substitution already the transitivity which we want to show?

If you have the ordering as a given, plus the uniqueness of ##0##, then your proof is o.k. because you translated the problem to the uniqueness of ##0##.
 
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fresh_42 said:
I'm not sure whether you can use the ordering. If ##x,y,z## weren't numbers, the transitivity of ##"="## would still be given. Transitivity is the name of the assertion you want to prove. It somehow transports the burden simply to somewhere else. Normally transitivity is part of a definition, a requirement. Thus the question is: what does ##"="## mean? Do you have a definition for it?

You have in principle shown: ##x=y \wedge y=z \wedge x\neq z\,\Rightarrow\, y\neq z##, because we can substitute ##y## for ##x## and then have a contradiction. But isn't this substitution already the transitivity which we want to show?

If you have the ordering as a given, plus the uniqueness of ##0##, then your proof is o.k. because you translated the problem to the uniqueness of ##0##.
= is the binary relation on the set of natural numbers, for instance, 1=1, 2=2 and n=n.
 
Mathematicsresear said:
= is the binary relation on the set of natural numbers, for instance, 1=1, 2=2 and n=n.
Yes, but as a binary relation it should have some properties which defines it. Usually it is reflexivity ##x=x##, symmetry ##x=y \Rightarrow y=x## and transitivity ##x=y \wedge y=z \Rightarrow x=z##. But as you should show the latter, there must be something else we can use instead. One possibility is your way with the calculation rules, but then we already use the relation. So it's a bit confusing.

E.g. your proof substitutes ##z## by ##y##. But if this is allowed, then transitivity follows directly by this substitution and we don't need the difference. That's why I'm asking what is given.
 

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