Is this the correct way to show a sequence is divergent?

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    Divergent Sequence
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions for demonstrating that a sequence in a metric space does not converge. Participants explore the logical negation of the convergence definition and the implications for showing divergence, particularly in the context of sequences that may or may not have convergent subsequences.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts the correct negation of the convergence definition for a sequence in a metric space.
  • Another participant corrects the interpretation of divergence, emphasizing the need to show that infinitely many terms lie outside a neighborhood of a point.
  • A participant questions the dependency of the neighborhood and natural number on the chosen point in their argument for divergence.
  • Concerns are raised about the applicability of the argument when sequences contain convergent subsequences.
  • A later reply confirms the need for a specific argument when discussing the completeness of the space in relation to Cauchy sequences.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the correct negation of the convergence definition, but there is disagreement regarding the interpretation and application of this negation in proving divergence, particularly concerning the presence of convergent subsequences.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the argument for divergence may not hold if the sequence has convergent subsequences, which could affect the completeness of the space being analyzed.

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A sequence [itex]\{x_n\}[/itex] in a metric space [itex](X,d)[/itex] converges iff

[tex] (\exists x\in X)(\forall \epsilon > 0)(\exists N \in \mathbb N)(\forall n > N)(d(x_n,x) < \epsilon).[/tex]

Am I correct when I assert that the negation of this is: A sequence [itex]\{x_n\}[/itex] does not converge in [itex](X,d)[/itex] iff

[tex] (\forall x\in X)(\exists \epsilon > 0)(\forall N \in \mathbb N)(\exists n > N)(d(x_n,x) \geq \epsilon)?[/tex]

So, if I'm trying to show a sequence does not converge, I let [itex]x\in X[/itex] be given and show that there is some [itex]\epsilon[/itex] neighborhood of this point that contains at most finitely many of the [itex]x_n[/itex]?
 
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Your original assertion of negation is correct, but your final statement is incorrect: for a given x, you must only show there is a neighborhood of x outside of which infinitely many x_n lie. The sequence 0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,... does not converge to 0, but any neighborhood of 0 contains infinitely many x_n.
 
JCVD said:
Your original assertion of negation is correct, but your final statement is incorrect: for a given x, you must only show there is a neighborhood of x outside of which infinitely many x_n lie. The sequence 0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,... does not converge to 0, but any neighborhood of 0 contains infinitely many x_n.

Ok. So my phrasing of the negation is correct, but I interpreted it incorrectly. But certainly, if I'm given a sequence [itex]\{x_n\}[/itex] and I want to show it doesn't converge in [itex](X,d)[/itex], if I show that for every [itex]x\in X[/itex] there exists an [itex]\epsilon(x) > 0[/itex] and an [itex]N(x)\in \mathbb N[/itex] such that [itex]n > N(x)[/itex] implies [itex]d(x,x_n) > \epsilon(x)[/itex] , I'm good, right? (The crucial question here is whether my [itex]N[/itex] and my [itex]\epsilon[/itex] are allowed to depend on the given [itex]x[/itex], which I think they can.)
 
Everything in your last post is correct, but just beware that your argument will only be able to handle sequences without any convergent subsequence.
 
JCVD said:
Everything in your last post is correct, but just beware that your argument will only be able to handle sequences without any convergent subsequence.

Ok, thanks! But if I'm trying to show (for example) that the space [itex](X,d)[/itex] is not complete, then I'd *need* an argument like the above, right? Because if my sequence is Cauchy and has a convergent subsequence, the whole sequence converges to the limit of the subsequence, right?
 
Right.
 

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