Is Time an Illusion Created by Our Consciousness?

[Rader]

Time is an illusion. Time is a history of spatial movements of our consciousness in our material dimensional world. Consider this: If you were quicker than light, there is no-time. The Alfa becomes the Omega. The entire known universe and beyond becomes one. Everthing becomes onething. Movement at slower speeds than light create vibrations matter and time.
The size of strings and the entire universe then become one. There is only one thing quicker than light, a thought, its no joke, its the mind of God.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/cship/cship.html

 

[phoenixthoth]

illusions.

what happens when a western-oriented person asks you to prove that time is an illusion? during the cuban missile crissis, was the time tensely elapsing all in our minds?

i believe that things in this world, like objects and time (clocks), are ICONS for what is really there, that the icons aren't the full totality of the object but that the icons are very real. the rest of the icon exists on a plane of concepts and imagination. in this plane, time does not exist but i still can't seem to control time any better having realized that.

may your journey be graceful,
phoenix

 

[KitNyx]

If Time is an illusion than so are the extended spatial dimensions. The fact that we must state three spatial measurements as well as the temporal when defining any point in space is proof enough for me that Time is a definite defining aspect of the universe.

It can be argued that everything is an illusion, that our perceptions of the universe are nothing more than electrical impulses interpreted by our brains, so it anything real? We can argue this point, but then we are not discussing science, we are discussing philosophy. Science is the classification and understanding of what we observe.

- KitNyx

 

[Rader]

Consider these points. We are made of atoms, or strings if you like to go smaller yet, correct?
Yet these microsopic building blocks of which we are made of, do not age or appear to be affected by time. Yet we are and time appears to be moving in one direction. Time is a measurement tool at different evoluctionary levels. Its a matter of consciousness. How do you think a atom, molecule, virus, bacteria, cell, plant, animal, or us percieve time to be. Time came into existence because of the direct result of the conversion of energy into matter and the evoluctionary advancement of higher and higher levels of organized matter states. To put it simply higher orders of consciousness. Take away the observer, does time exist? Prove it to me. I do not mean us as the observer, I mean all the way back to the atom, take it away and there is no time. Time is an illusion if you are an atom or us. Time has been created by consiousness.[zz)]

 

[Shah Nawaz]

Time is independent of all physical matter and of any living thing's conciousness. It is therefore NOT an illusion. Imagine that there is nothing in this Universe, the passage of time would still remain, but it wouldn't have any purpose.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Originally posted by Rader
Consider these points. We are made of atoms, or strings if you like to go smaller yet, correct?
Yet these microsopic building blocks of which we are made of, do not age or appear to be affected by time. Yet we are and time appears to be moving in one direction. Time is a measurement tool at different evoluctionary levels. Its a matter of consciousness. How do you think a atom, molecule, virus, bacteria, cell, plant, animal, or us percieve time to be. Time came into existence because of the direct result of the conversion of energy into matter and the evoluctionary advancement of higher and higher levels of organized matter states. To put it simply higher orders of consciousness. Take away the observer, does time exist? Prove it to me. I do not mean us as the observer, I mean all the way back to the atom, take it away and there is no time. Time is an illusion if you are an atom or us. Time has been created by consiousness.[zz)]

There is a physics explanation for the fact that the elementary constituents of matter experience time (they move and interact and change) , but not "age". Aging is at least in part a thermodynamic consequence of increasing entropy (we also as metazoan organisms have built in aging mechanisms in our chromosomes and cells). Entropy is a collective property of a large number of constituents, so you won't see it at the level of single or small number of constituents.

 

[Rader]

There is a physics explanation for the fact that the elementary constituents of matter experience time (they move and interact and change) , but not "age". Aging is at least in part a thermodynamic consequence of increasing entropy (we also as metazoan organisms have built in aging mechanisms in our chromosomes and cells). Entropy is a collective property of a large number of constituents, so you won't see it at the level of single or small number of constituents.

Yes but would you not say there is thermodynamic consequences, atoms gain and loose electrons and change there energy states. Why is there no entropy? Is it because we can not see that small, is there evidence? Or is it possible that the fundamental building block we take for granted may not be objective material which could show entropy. There is a lot of space between the atom and the plank lenght, we may be suprised some day what we find.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Shah Nawaz
Time is independent of all physical matter and of any living thing's conciousness. It is therefore NOT an illusion. Imagine that there is nothing in this Universe, the passage of time would still remain, but it wouldn't have any purpose.

When traveling in an airplane at a very small speed of light the clock is slower than on Earth by very small amounts. The length also shortens by a very small amount. Upon reaching the speed of light distance and time is a point.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/cship/cship.html

 

[quantumdude]

Originally posted by Rader
Yes but would you not say there is thermodynamic consequences, atoms gain and loose electrons and change there energy states. Why is there no entropy?

There is no entropy for the same reason there is no temperature. Both entropy and temperature are phenomena that arise from an aggregation of smaller constituents, just as selfAdjoint said.

Consider this post. It is composed of pixels, all of which together carry the message. But at the level of the single pixel, the message I've typed is not to be found.

Your question ("Why is there no entropy?") is just like asking "Why is there no message?" when we look at one pixel of my post. The answer is that the message does not exist at that level of organization.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Tom
There is no entropy for the same reason there is no temperature. Both entropy and temperature are phenomena that arise from an aggregation of smaller constituents, just as selfAdjoint said.

If there was no temperature would not the atom cease to exist? The atoms componets have velocity. There is a force that holds the atom together and a velocity trying to tear away, does not this cuase temperature change. Does not the law of thermodynamics hold on the micro scale as the macro?


Consider this post. It is composed of pixels, all of which together carry the message. But at the level of the single pixel, the message I've typed is not to be found.

Then you are saying there is a message but it can not be found on the level we are at, looking into it?

Your question ("Why is there no entropy?") is just like asking "Why is there no message?" when we look at one pixel of my post. The answer is that the message does not exist at that level of organization.

I see, then it will exist on its own level of organization? And entropy also, we just can not see it on our level of organization?


The atom at least say a uranium atom would have a large number of constituents, electons neutons and protons. Would the splitting of an atom be consdered entropy?

 

[Shah Nawaz]

Originally posted by Rader
When traveling in an airplane at a very small speed of light the clock is slower than on Earth by very small amounts. The length also shortens by a very small amount. Upon reaching the speed of light distance and time is a point.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/cship/cship.html

The time that you're talking about is measured through a physical object, it is not the universal time, the time that is independent of everything, the clock is affected due to the laws of physics being applied to it.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Shah Nawaz
The time that you're talking about is measured through a physical object, it is not the universal time, the time that is independent of everything, the clock is affected due to the laws of physics being applied to it.

Physical ime is a reslut of slower movements than the spped of light. At light speed universal time is 0. Physcial time is realavent to the ovserver. Physical time is also a direct result of observation and consciousness. Without the observer there is no physical time.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by Tom


Consider this post. It is composed of pixels, all of which together carry the message. But at the level of the single pixel, the message I've typed is not to be found.


If we can not see information at the pixel level of particles, as we see at our own pixel level is it not possible that, SAS self aware structures, that have mathematical models with a well defined group of axioms, could exist? What is simply looked at from our pixel level, of atom interaction, which we call electro-magnetic covalent bonding, is on its own pixel level, SAS. With too few axioms, a mathematical structure is too simple to contain SAS. It all hinges on what are the axioms from the plank length to the atom, inside the atom. I tried on another post to argue the existence of consciousness on different levels of evolutionary scale from atoms to humans, without getting my point across. If we use these parameters for argument >1 Physical existence is equivalent to mathematical existence. Mathematical existence is merely freedom from contradiction. Subjective reality is also mathematically defined. Subjective reality is what exists, for the moment, below all atomic structures. Observation is a question of where you are on the pixel train. Physical time is relevant to the observer. Then the universe is consciousness of itself in all time frames. This is how simplicity evolves into complexity.

There is a hypothetical tendency IN TIME for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert uniformity. There is also hypothetical theory IN TIME for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve towards a state of complexity and perfection.

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by phoenixthoth
illusions.

what happens when a western-oriented person asks you to prove that time is an illusion? during the cuban missile crissis, was the time tensely elapsing all in our minds?

phoenix

I would tell him stare at a clock. Physical individual time, elapses fast or slow depending on our perception and observation. In that sense yes.

i believe that things in this world, like objects and time (clocks), are ICONS for what is really there, that the icons aren't the full totality of the object but that the icons are very real. the rest of the icon exists on a plane of concepts and imagination. in this plane, time does not exist but i still can't seem to control time any better having realized that.

Time is a measuremt tool for our existence in the physical world. We perceive that it exists because we are conscious. We are conscious and we and all things move slower than light. Consciousness at the speed of light must be total consciousness.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Would you be interested in discussing your icon theory on the philosophy board? It certainly sounds like a philosophical idea to me.

Cheers,
selfAdjoint