Is Time Merely a Side Effect of Energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between time and energy, exploring whether time could be considered a side effect of energy. Participants examine various theoretical and conceptual aspects of this relationship, including definitions of energy and its implications in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that time could be viewed as a side effect of energy, suggesting a connection between the two concepts based on human perception and the nature of change.
  • Others argue that while there is a relationship between energy and time, labeling time as a "side effect" may not be accurate. They reference Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and the role of energy in quantum mechanics.
  • Questions arise regarding the nature of energy, including whether energy can exist in a "pure" form or if it is always stored or in use.
  • Some participants mention "rest mass" as a form of consolidated energy and discuss the implications of energy storage in different contexts, such as capacitance.
  • There is a challenge to the idea of energy existing in a form that is neither used nor stored, with a suggestion that this concept may be mutually exclusive.
  • A later reply cautions against becoming overly speculative in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between time and energy, with no consensus reached on whether time can be considered a side effect of energy. The discussion includes both supportive and skeptical perspectives regarding the definitions and implications of energy.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the concepts involved, with some statements relying on specific definitions of energy and time that may not be universally accepted. The discussion remains open-ended with unresolved questions about the nature of energy.

Pyon
Please realize I'm going to talk about random made up thoughts so don't take them too seriously, also I'm going to make a lot of wrong assumptions so be careful.

Just a question, wouldn't it be OK to say time is a side effect of energy? It kind of makes sense because we humans really can relatively keep track of time with our senses, and when we are not using them such as when we dream where the concept of time is kind of distorted. Also if there was no energy in the universe, absolutely nothing would change which would imply time would not exist?
 
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Pyon said:
Just a question, wouldn't it be OK to say time is a side effect of energy?

I don't know if "side-effect" is the right word, but there's definitely a relation between energy and time. You have Heisenberg's uncertainty principle ΔEΔt≥h/2, you have the angular velocity term in the exponential of the time derivative of Schrödinger equation, e^-iwt, and, most importantly, you have an energy term in the time slot of the 4-momentum, (E/c, Px, Py, Pz).

Energy is defined as "the capacity for doing work". As you mentioned, work is more related to work being done "through time." So to say they are related I think is fair, to say one is causal of another I think more suspicious.
 
I see, thanks for the reply. You say energy is defined as the capacity of doing work, but energy can also be stored right? Also is there a pure form of energy? where it's not being used or stored?
 
Pyon said:
I see, thanks for the reply. You say energy is defined as the capacity of doing work, but energy can also be stored right? Also is there a pure form of energy? where it's not being used or stored?

Well, this is more for the physics experts here at PF here to comment on, but in the meantime I'd say that from my understanding "rest mass" may be a form of consolidated energy, if that's what you are referring to. Or perhaps the energy stored in a capacitance-type situation, etc. "Where it's not being used or stored" is a mutually exclusive term, something is either being used or stored, wouldn't you agree? I don't think there's a third alternative.
 
DiracPool said:
Well, this is more for the physics experts here at PF here to comment on, but in the meantime I'd say that from my understanding "rest mass" may be a form of consolidated energy, if that's what you are referring to. Or perhaps the energy stored in a capacitance-type situation, etc. "Where it's not being used or stored" is a mutually exclusive term, something is either being used or stored, wouldn't you agree? I don't think there's a third alternative.

Yes I'd agree there is not third alternative, but I was thinking something like light maybe?
 
Sorry, but this gets into our rule of becoming "overly speculative".
 
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