Is x equal to the 4th root of y in the equation y=x^4?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equation y = x^4 and whether x can be expressed as the fourth root of y. Participants explore the implications of this equation, including the nature of the roots and the conditions under which they hold, touching on algebraic manipulations and the concept of inverse functions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if y = x^4, then x can be expressed as ±√[4]{y}, while others suggest that x can also be represented as ±√[2]{±√[2]{y}}.
  • It is noted that if y is non-negative, the real solutions for x are indeed ±√[4]{y}.
  • One participant argues that the notation ||x|| is unnecessary when referring to the absolute value of x, as it complicates the expression without adding clarity.
  • Another participant points out that if y is a positive real number, it has two real fourth roots and two imaginary roots, while if y is not positive, all fourth roots are complex.
  • There is a discussion about the inverse function of f(x) = x^4, with some asserting that it is simply f^{-1}(x) = ±√[4]{x}, while others contend that this is not a valid function due to the non-one-to-one nature of f(x) without restricting the domain.
  • Concerns are raised about the complexity of plotting complex graphics to verify certain claims regarding the roots and their representations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the representation of x in relation to y, the nature of the roots, and the validity of the inverse function. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the values of y, particularly concerning its positivity and the implications for the nature of the roots. The discussion also highlights the dependence on definitions and notation used in mathematical expressions.

Jhenrique
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If ##y=x^4##, so x is equal to ##\pm \sqrt[4]{y}## or x is equal to ##\pm \sqrt[2]{\pm \sqrt[2]{y}}## ?

Well, I think that x is qual to ##\pm \sqrt[4]{y}## because

##
\\y=x^4
\\\sqrt[4]{y} = \sqrt[4]{x^4} = \sqrt[2]{\sqrt[2]{(x^2)^2}} = \sqrt[2]{|x^2|} = \sqrt[2]{|x|^2} = ||x|| = |x|
\\ \pm \sqrt[4]{y}=x
##

Right!?
 
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If y is non-negative, this is indeed the real solutions for x.
 
Jhenrique said:
If ##y=x^4##, so x is equal to ##\pm \sqrt[4]{y}## or x is equal to ##\pm \sqrt[2]{\pm \sqrt[2]{y}}## ?

Well, I think that x is qual to ##\pm \sqrt[4]{y}## because

##
\\y=x^4
\\\sqrt[4]{y} = \sqrt[4]{x^4} = \sqrt[2]{\sqrt[2]{(x^2)^2}} = \sqrt[2]{|x^2|} = \sqrt[2]{|x|^2} = ||x|| = |x|
\\ \pm \sqrt[4]{y}=x
##

Right!?
This is a basic algebra question that you should be able to answer for yourself.

If y = 16 = 24, then y = ##\pm##2. These are the only real fourth roots of 16. The other two roots are imaginary.

Some of what you wrote above is unnecessary, such as replacing x2 by |x2|. If x is real, then x2 ≥ 0, so x2 and |x2| represent the same number.

This notation -- ||x|| -- means the norm of x, in which the context is usually that x is a vector or something in a vector space. It's overkill to use ||x|| when all you mean is the absolute value, |x|.
 
Note that people are saying "the real roots". If y is a positive real number then it has 2 real fourth roots and two imaginary roots. If y is not a positive real number then all four fourth roots are complex numbers.
 
A) ||x|| isn't the norm of, is the abs of abs of x.

B) I didn't omit the abs in |x|² for efect of step-by-step.

C) All roots of equation ##y = x^4## is given by ##x=\pm\sqrt[2]{\pm\sqrt[2]{y}}##. But, if ##f(x) = x^4##, the inverse function is given simply ##f^{-1}(x) = \pm \sqrt[4]{x}##. Also, if ##f(z) = z^4##, thus maybe the inverse function is probably given by ##f^{-1}(z) = \pm\sqrt[2]{\pm\sqrt[2]{z}}## and not by ##f^{-1}(z) = \pm \sqrt[4]{z}##. But, I don't know how to verify this, cause I don't know how and where I can plot a complex graphic.
 
Jhenrique said:
A) ||x|| isn't the norm of, is the abs of abs of x.
Why do this? The absolute value of a real number is nonnegative, so there's no point in taking the absolute value again.
Jhenrique said:
B) I didn't omit the abs in |x|² for efect of step-by-step.
Then you're adding extra, unnecessary steps. All you need to say is that ##\sqrt{x^2} = |x|##. And as I mentioned in another thread, including the index of 2 on your square root is completely unnecessary. This is one of a number of shortcuts that we take in mathematics. For example, we rarely write 1x in place of x, or y1 when we mean y.
Jhenrique said:
C) All roots of equation ##y = x^4## is given by ##x=\pm\sqrt[2]{\pm\sqrt[2]{y}}##. But, if ##f(x) = x^4##, the inverse function is given simply ##f^{-1}(x) = \pm \sqrt[4]{x}##.
No.
What you wrote for the inverse is not a function. f is not a one-to-one function, so it doesn't have an inverse. However, if we restrict the domain to x ≥ 0, then f is now one-to-one, and its inverse is f-1(x) = ##\sqrt[4]{x}##. No ##\pm##.
Jhenrique said:
Also, if ##f(z) = z^4##, thus maybe the inverse function is probably given by ##f^{-1}(z) = \pm\sqrt[2]{\pm\sqrt[2]{z}}## and not by ##f^{-1}(z) = \pm \sqrt[4]{z}##. But, I don't know how to verify this, cause I don't know how and where I can plot a complex graphic.
 

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