IT Outsourcing: Who's Responsible?

[aquitaine]

IT outsourcing is the dread of IT departments everywhere, but really who is responsible for it? Who makes the call? Who decides to discard his/her minions and instead depend on low wage near slave labor in India?

 

[Studiot]

It's not slave labour, it's healthy exercise, Boss.

 

[ektrules]

The market is responsible for it. A corporation's sole goal is to cut costs and increase profits for the shareholders. If it's cheaper to outsource, then they must outsource.

IT workers in India don't exactly make slave-wages either. From my experience with Elance, they typically charge around $10/hr. Not nearly as much as people in developed countries, but not poverty wages either.

However, in some sectors, like manufacturing, the wages and working conditions are abysmally low. I think there needs to be international fair-wage agreements between countries to prevent the so called, "race to the bottom."

Again, corporations only have one responsibility, and it's not fair wages. If the exploitation of the poor is going to stop, the corporations will not be the ones stopping it. In fact, they'll likely fight it.

 

[WhoWee]

Let's label my story - IMO.

I was recently involved in the transaction of a piece of equipment. The lease finance package bundled it with controls, software, training, maintenance, and on-going (live) support. Everyone was focused on the cost of the capital equipment, lease payments, and delivery/implementation timelines.

NOBODY asked about the on-going services agreement other than verifying what the "live" aspect meant (compared to other options), the length (5 years) of the agreement, and the cost.

After the equipment was delivered and installed, the training completed, upgrades installed, and the first scheduled maintenance was performed - they experienced a problem on a weekend that required "live" assistance. It was at this point the client realized the "live" support was outsourced to a distant location.

The problem was addressed immediately and the on-site personnel were happy with the service. A few days later, an executive of the client company demanded the package cost be reduced as he wasn't aware of the outsourcing of the "live" support - said he wouldn't have done the deal if he'd known.

The truth is that he wouldn't have done the deal if the price was higher. I know this because he wouldn't do the deal until the price was lowered during the negotiations. The reason his price was lowered was he said he didn't need the 24 hour support with (a small group of US based) factory engineers (that would be deployed on-site if needed) - he wanted the lower cost "live" support package (telephone/web) available during very specific hours (which happened to be outsourced).

 

[rootX]

What's wrong?

We can try to reverse the time and go back to 1900s which is bit impossible or hide ourselves in our rooms so that we don't have to ever face these new challenges.

Companies are attracted towards http://www2.goldmansachs.com/ideas/brics/brics-decade-doc.pdf".

 

[JaredJames]

Everytime I end up speaking to some outsourced help centre I always find them unable to solve my problem.

In three years I've spoken to a variety of Indian and African 'support' companies and I don't think it's ever ended without being transferred back to Britain (and in one case the US) to 'second line support'.

I spend 30 minutes (at my own expense) speaking to these people who don't have a clue what they're talking about outside the script they follow only to be told there's nothing they can do and be transferred to 'second line support' where they tell me the problem is exactly what I told Mr outsource it was in the first place.

I fully understand they have to do their checks, but there is a point where any person who knew what they were doing would recognise "hey, this person actually knows something - perhaps we should check it out" and cut down all the BS (and my phone bill).

I questioned the qualifications of one person to be told he held a degree in telecommunications (or something along those lines) - but for some reason couldn't grasp the concept of upload and download.

The worst experiences I've had is when I speak to technical support, tell them I'm on a mobile and would like them to call me back, they agree and take my number, hang up and then never call back. When I call back to billing (which is always in Britain for some reason - funny that when money is involved) I'm told they're not authorised to call back. Lies and poorly trained staff have not reflected well on these companies for me.

The ultimate answer is it's cost cutting. They don't care about customer satisfaction - I'm actually wondering if any customer who has had to speak to these outsourced departments has ever been completely happy with it. I've never met one.

 

[rootX]

help-support and outsourcing are not equivalent terms.

 

[JaredJames]

help-support and outsourcing are not equivalent terms.

Both outsourced aren't they?

 

[Pengwuino]

Personally I don't see a problem with outsourcing. For the general consumer, having someone read a script to them probably solves the problem 90% of the time. Hell, most electronic equipment I have, when it has a problem, is fixable with a simple unplug/replug or reboot. This idea completely vexes people, they have NO idea how powerful pulling the plug is! or restarting the computer! or whatever!

What really should be the case is when you call tech support, you should have the option of going to an "advanced" tech support, the equivalent of what someone previous was mentioning "the second line support". For example, I needed to get my new cable modem synced up with Comcast. I call the first tech support and actually, Comcast is really good about it: I said exactly what I needed to do and they immediately forwarded me the more advanced folk who just asked for the MAC ID and boom, setup, win.

Of course, if you setup a system where there was an "advanced" tech support, a lot of joe shmoes would feel almost insulted at the idea of using the non-advanced tech support, as if knowing how to plug in your TV qualifies you as an electrical engineer.

 

[turbo]

If you need technical support with a Dell product, heaven help you. I was shipped several wide-screen monitors in a row with color-shifts from the left to the right of the LCD and/or stuck pixels. Sometimes clusters of stuck pixels.

Dell's idea of "refurbishing" returned products appears to end at cleaning them up, repackaging them with new packing, and shipping them until they "stick" somewhere. During this weeks-long ordeal I got all kinds of nonsensical advice from script-monkeys, including that I had to de-gauss my LCD to see if that would solve the problem. Really? I didn't need some idiot to explain away the color-shifts or stuck pixels, but that's the gauntlet you run in order to return a faulty product with Dell.

 

[JaredJames]

Of course, if you setup a system where there was an "advanced" tech support, a lot of joe shmoes would feel almost insulted at the idea of using the non-advanced tech support, as if knowing how to plug in your TV qualifies you as an electrical engineer.

My thoughts exactly, but at the same time a trained person (properly trained not script trained) would recognise the difference between "this guy is talking BS" and "he might just be onto something" - my latter point coming from when I had the same problem three times in a row and despite the notes on my account and my fantastically detailed knowledge of the problem (after three runs who wouldn't know it backwards) they still made me "turn it off, turn it on, unplug it, go to the neighbours and see if theirs works (yes that was actually a suggestion once).

 

[rootX]

Both outsourced aren't they?

Outsourcing (even IT outsourcing) has far more services than just help-support. Not only you are using small subset of what is being outsourced but you are also limiting yourself to your 3 years of personal experience.

See the OP post again:

IT outsourcing is the dread of IT departments everywhere, but really who is responsible for it? Who makes the call? Who decides to discard his/her minions and instead depend on low wage near slave labor in India?

My company has one branch in India and is now opening second branch. It is focusing a lot on China and India.

 

[JaredJames]

Outsourcing (even IT outsourcing) has far more services than just help-support. Not only you are using small subset of what is being outsourced but you are also limiting yourself to your 3 years of personal experience.

Experience is experience in this case.

Considering I speak to these centres ~3 times a month I'd say it's a fair bit of communication and experience with them.

It may be a small segment of outsourcing, but for the general public - the customers - it is very important. It is something people don't think about, it's all about the money for businesses.

 

[EntropicLove]

It's not slave labour, it's healthy exercise, Boss.

Lol.

Yeah it seems like an advantageous tactic for corporations to maximize profit under the shelter of lax/corrupt/malleable foreign *legal* environments.

It's essentially taking advantage of a poor country on a humanitarian level because the legal framework which creates the structure of the work environment(s) are in the interest of the enterprise's profit margin.

 

[WhoWee]

Lol.

Yeah it seems like an advantageous tactic for corporations to maximize profit under the shelter of lax/corrupt/malleable foreign *legal* environments.

It's essentially taking advantage of a poor country on a humanitarian level because the legal framework which creates the structure of the work environment(s) are in the interest of the enterprise's profit margin.

Can you support this claim? I don't see much IT outsourcing going to Haiti or the poorest parts of Africa, etc. These jobs require a certain level of training, skill, and proficiency.

 

[AlephZero]

Considering I speak to these centres ~3 times a month I'd say it's a fair bit of communication and experience with them.

If you are contacting them as often as that, most likely either you are wanting an organization to provide a very different level of service from what it is intended to deliver (you don't expect your local newsagent to have 100 different international daily newpapers availble in the store, for example), or you are just very unlucky.

Either way, changing suppliers might be a good option to consider.

I don't have much problem with overseas call centers, but I contact them more like once every 3 years than 3 times a month.

 

[EntropicLove]

Can you support this claim? I don't see much IT outsourcing going to Haiti or the poorest parts of Africa, etc. These jobs require a certain level of training, skill, and proficiency.

http://www.chillibreeze.com/articles/top-countries-outsourcing.asp

Top ten countries:

"Mexico is increasingly becoming a preferred destination to service Spanish speaking populations. Big companies like Accenture, IBM and EDS have a significant presence here."

"South Africa is one country that is slowly emerging as an outsourcing destination that is taking advantage of increased competition worldwide. South Africa is advantageous to the UK market as it lies in the same time zone and has a similar culture. It has to its advantage good infrastructure; call center operation capabilities and mastery over the English language."

...the list goes on Russia, Phillipines...read it or do a google search--there is tons of literature about this progression of international IT sourcing; as for right now the most relevant factor whether firms use them is if they speak english etc...

 

[WhoWee]

http://www.chillibreeze.com/articles/top-countries-outsourcing.asp

Top ten countries:

"Mexico is increasingly becoming a preferred destination to service Spanish speaking populations. Big companies like Accenture, IBM and EDS have a significant presence here."

"South Africa is one country that is slowly emerging as an outsourcing destination that is taking advantage of increased competition worldwide. South Africa is advantageous to the UK market as it lies in the same time zone and has a similar culture. It has to its advantage good infrastructure; call center operation capabilities and mastery over the English language."

...the list goes on Russia, Phillipines...read it or do a google search--there is tons of literature about this progression of international IT sourcing; as for right now the most relevant factor whether firms use them is if they speak english etc...

Can you please explain how your link supports your previous statement?

"Lol.

Yeah it seems like an advantageous tactic for corporations to maximize profit under the shelter of lax/corrupt/malleable foreign *legal* environments.

It's essentially taking advantage of a poor country on a humanitarian level because the legal framework which creates the structure of the work environment(s) are in the interest of the enterprise's profit margin."