It's all a lie, it's all so fake

[totallyclueless]

It's all a lie, it's all so fake...

I was just thinking...there are things about the kids around me that I really despise.
We all know about all the kids out there who cut themselves, who listen to hard metal, who call themselves "punk, emo, outcasts, goths" etc.
Well the truth is...it's all a lie!
These people dress strange and act strange (wearing all black, chains, "punk" bands, Hot Topic, etc) because they say they are "being themselves" Well look around you. You're not! They try so hard to be themselves, but half the world is doing the same thing. They try to run away from the trends, but it's turned into exactly what they were running from in the first place.
Why should you have to TRY to be yourself? I mean it should come naturally without having to buy a certain kind of clothes. and newsflash people: being yourself doesn't been you have to be totally different then everyone else! why is it so bad that anyone is like you? why? I am not saying "go with the trend" or "everyone who shops at Hot Topic and stuff is stupid" I am not saying that. it's just that you SAY u r different, but ure just stuck in another trend.

ya know?

Oh. and all those people who go around moaning and groaning and complaing about how their lives are falling down around them, how life betrayed them, how life sucks, this and that...it's not true! life is being served to you on a silver platter. why is it "cool" to act like you hate life? gosh.
and people who say, "no one likes me, I am an outcast, a loser, blah blah" its so untrue! you AREN'T losers, unless you're TRYING to be one!

this is true for everyone except for people where it's actually true. who are clinicaly depressed. but sometimes, it escalates so far that you just say you hate life so much it starts to become true. you know?

and people who are like "i was uncool before being uncool was cool" they are such liars. ugh i can't even explain this one.

and don't get me wrong...i like Hot Topic...i love some of their stuff. Does that make me a poser? no!
Stop putting down Avril! I mean, peeps say she is a poser cos of her clothes. What snobs! She was one of the first to start wearing ties over her clothes and stuff, and let's face it, you followed. who are you to call her a poser? who is she posing as? everyone else? so are you. why can't u just sit back and enjoy her music? (unless u don't enjoy it...)

but do you see what i mean?

sorry if I offend anyone, but this is how I've always felt.

 

[Moonbear]

LOL! I always found it amusing that the kids try to be "different" in exactly the same way as all the other kids.

Oh, but teenagers have always been mopey, it just comes with the age. It's a phase and it will pass.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I think you're 100% right on all counts, Totallyclueless. I noticed the very same thing in the 60s. The alleged rebellion against the "establishment" where everyone was supposed to be exploring their individuality was just a new faction of lemmings that had broken off from the main herd all following each other to their doom.

People are more susceptible to peer group pressure than they ever realize. I've met all today's punks, emos, goths, as well as lamers and crustys and they're all the same old thing: people desparate to fit in with some peer group, not people persuing their individuality.

 

[Moonbear]

Are today's punks like yesterday's punks, or a different breed of punk? I know what goths are, but what the heck are emos, lamers and crustys? I didn't realize there was that much variety out there. Other than the kids wearing all black and heavy make-up, the rest pretty much all just look like slobs to me. The ones who stand out anymore are the few who keep their pants belted at the waist and their shirt tails tucked in.

 

[saltydog]

"It's all a lie, it's all so fake..."

Isn't that from one of her songs? Who me? Not me, I'm too old to like her music. Peeps and Posers. Hot Topic. Can I just guess? Really, I don't want to bug anyone. I'm saying . . . . . . . .16.

 

[Pengwuino]

Are today's punks like yesterday's punks, or a different breed of punk?

Oh, the days where the punks burnt flags and aided the Vietcong and bombed government buildings... the days when kids actually knew what their cause was and why it was...

Now people don't even seem to know what they hate or why... *tear*... i wish i lived in the age of reason...

But no... i live now... and i think I am going to join the "i just want to be different crowd" by dressing up like ALLLLLLLLLLL my friends!

 

[totallyclueless]

emos are "emotionals"
yea...right...

 

[totallyclueless]

oh and i didn't know that was from one of her songs! lol what a coincidence!

 

[Moonbear]

emos are "emotionals"
yea...right...

I thought it just referred to a type of music. What "attire" goes with it?

 

[totallyclueless]

basically the same as punks and goths...maybe a bit more reserved. at least in my school it is. but they have a diff. attitude...depressed...hate life...etc. but they TRY to be like that. Ugh. I can't stand it!

 

[JamesU]

you don't get it. the "non conformists" conform with other "non conformists"

 

[Evo]

emos are "emotionals"
yea...right...

I've listened to lots of emo. I always asked my daughter why they ruin a perfectly good song with the screaming. She justs looks at me.

She's into indie though.

You forgot ska.

Avril...ties over her clothes..you mean like what was popular in the 80's?

I know a lot of kids into punk and these kids are freeking brilliant and well adjusted. I just got off the phone with one that placed second in a national film competition, the next Stephen Spielberg. And he's adopting me as his mom.

 

[totallyclueless]

you don't get it. the "non conformists" conform with other "non conformists"

yea, so they aren't non comformists anymore. o_o

 

[JamesU]

that's if you think "non conformist" means what you think it means

 

[Evo]

yea, so they aren't non comformists anymore. o_o

I know what you are saying, probably 95% or more of the high school kids pretend to understand the music and the meaning, but they're fake. The less than 5% that really understand the music on an intellectual level and are really part of the movement aren't fake. These kids blow me away, their understanding of the music and the history is mind boggling.

 

[totallyclueless]

now I am so confused...thanks a lot...

 

[Evo]

now I am so confused...thanks a lot...

Read my last post, I completely agree with what you said. You sound like me at your age.

Kids for the most part are sheep needing to fit in with the flock. You are smart enough to recognize them for what they are and aren't dragged into their mindless nonsense.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

LOL! I always found it amusing that the kids try to be "different" in exactly the same way as all the other kids.

Oh, but teenagers have always been mopey, it just comes with the age. It's a phase and it will pass.

I pretty much agree. However, in the case of identity and self expression, many people seem to have a need to rebel against authority - to establish their own authority. I see it as a way for each generation to announce its arrival; sort of like shouting, "we're here and we won't be ignored!" So on one level, its not really a matter of personal identity as much as a group, or generational identity. But in addition to this, each person is also struggling to figure out where and how they fit into the group.

As for attitude, on one hand I can be real hard nose about this sort of thing. I can tell you from first hand experience that people who want to blame everyone else for their problems are, like Zooby said, going nowhere. This is by far the most outstanding trait that I've noticed among the biggest losers that I've known. And the poor me crap makes me want to scream!

But then I look at the suicide rate among teenagers. Biology can be cruel and life often is hard. And, to be blunt, there are a lot of struggling parents out there. Even those who are trying to be the greatest parents may not have the knowledge or skills needed to provide the sort of support, guidance, and discipline that their child needs. So, as has always been true, many kids are left twisting in the wind. When I see extreme dress and make up, or extreme behavior, the first thing that I think is, low self esteem. And, of course, a few people out there were just born scary: A bad seed, mental illness, chemical imbalance, call if what you like, but on the street it translates as bizarre and scary, and there's always a few of those around as well.

 

[totallyclueless]

yes, i guess you're right. the suicide rate could also be so high because of real clinical depression, though. and sometimes i think that the reason people get depressed is because its cool to be depressed...

 

[BicycleTree]

The thing is that most people never stop trying to belong to a group. The human tribal instinct is very influential.

 

[Moonbear]

But then I look at the suicide rate among teenagers. Biology can be cruel and life often is hard. And, to be blunt, there are a lot of struggling parents out there. Even those who are trying to be the greatest parents may not have the knowledge or skills needed to provide the sort of support, guidance, and discipline that their child needs. So, as has always been true, many kids are left twisting in the wind. When I see extreme dress and make up, or extreme behavior, the first thing that I think is, low self esteem. And, of course, a few people out there were just born scary: A bad seed, mental illness, chemical imbalance, call if what you like, but on the street it translates as bizarre and scary, and there's always a few of those around as well.

yes, i guess you're right. the suicide rate could also be so high because of real clinical depression, though. and sometimes i think that the reason people get depressed is because its cool to be depressed...

I think it's both...depends on the person. When it's not just rebellious dress, because every generation does that in some form or another, but heads into the self-mutilation realm (various forms of body art and piercing in addition to the more commonly recognized things like cutting), then I see a kid crying out for attention.

Of course, another part of the problem could be that those who are truly depressed become more prone to suicidal tendencies when they are surrounded by other negative people, even if those others are just acting. It sure does make it a lot harder to recognize which ones really need help and which just need to grow up.

 

[Pengwuino]

basically the same as punks and goths...maybe a bit more reserved. at least in my school it is. but they have a diff. attitude...depressed...hate life...etc. but they TRY to be like that. Ugh. I can't stand it!

Pff, i feel sorry for depressed people. All these fake depressed people are hurting real depressed people

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Are today's punks like yesterday's punks, or a different breed of punk? I know what goths are, but what the heck are emos, lamers and crustys? I didn't realize there was that much variety out there.

Punks are definitely different now a days and there are several types of them, crusties being a derogatory term for a gutter punk. Emo is short for "emotional" and is more or less a variation on Indie and Punk. There are Hipsters which are mostly into the Indie music scene. Ska, sorry to say Evo, is pretty much dead. At least real Ska music is the 3rd/4th wave more or less melded together with punk. There are also Ravers and Gravers(goth ravers) also known as Cybergoths. There are RivetHeads, or just plain Rivets, who are into Industrial music which is more or less gritty aggressive sounding electronic music. Metalheads and Deathrockers. Greasers and Rockabillies. There are also subgenres there called Psychobilly and Gothabilly. Psychobilly is a more punk rock/metal version of rockabilly which apearantly incorperates zombies . Swing kids. Cyberpunks. Skinheads have become somewhat of a scene too. NeoNazi Skins are into Hardcore (really thrashy punk). Traditional Skins aren't racist just sort of "conservative youth" I guess you could say. Original Skins are anti-racists as well as SHARPs(skin heads against racial prejudice). OG Skins are supposedly originally from Jamaica so they are into Ska (real ska which came out of Jamaica, rock/raggea fusion) and hardcore aswell. "Conservative youth" type punks are sometimes referred to as Skunks, a cross of skin and punk.
There is probably a whole lot more out there too. You can read a bit about various subcultures at that forum I linked and erased not that long ago, the sykoforums. That's it's actual purpose really not just the random spouting of things that wouldn't be appropriate here.

 

[Evo]

ska is still going, it's not big though (Jamaican gangster music) Was it the rooties? (I need a refresher course) Do you know what I'm referring to?

edit: ooh, yes, you know the history, I just finished what you posted about the skins.

 

[whozum]

Nothing like older generations talking about their descendants.

 

[Evo]

Nothing like older generations talking about their descendants.

Hey, we started it, you are all just mutations.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

ska is still going, it's not big though (Jamaican gangster music) Was it the rooties? (I need a refresher course) Do you know what I'm referring to?

edit: ooh, yes, you know the history, I just finished what you posted about the skins.

Rudeboys. Rudies maybe? I'm not sure where that part came from, I've just heard a lot from other people.

 

[Evo]

Rudeboys. Rudies maybe? I'm not sure where that part came from, I've just heard a lot from other people.

That's it!

 

[Soilwork]

I don't mean to sound like a bad person or anything, but the emo/punk/goth kids really annoy me. I just don't see the point in trying to be this 'individual' when it comes at a cost. The cost is that you look like a complete moron with fishnet stockings on your arms and crap like that. The guys also wear that stuff.
But yeah I agree with everything in the first post.
If you want to be an individual by dressing like an ass and listening to music you don't even like then that's ok I guess, but I can't stand how they have so much damn attitude. Being an individual and listening to Heavy Metal is no excuse to generally have no manners or to treat other people like sh*t.
That's the main reason they piss me off, as well as the fact that most of them don't listen to metal because they like it.
I won't say anymore though :)

 

[Moonbear]

Punks are definitely different now a days and there are several types of them, crusties being a derogatory term for a gutter punk. Emo is short for "emotional" and is more or less a variation on Indie and Punk. There are Hipsters which are mostly into the Indie music scene. Ska, sorry to say Evo, is pretty much dead. At least real Ska music is the 3rd/4th wave more or less melded together with punk. There are also Ravers and Gravers(goth ravers) also known as Cybergoths. There are RivetHeads, or just plain Rivets, who are into Industrial music which is more or less gritty aggressive sounding electronic music. Metalheads and Deathrockers. Greasers and Rockabillies. There are also subgenres there called Psychobilly and Gothabilly. Psychobilly is a more punk rock/metal version of rockabilly which apearantly incorperates zombies . Swing kids. Cyberpunks. Skinheads have become somewhat of a scene too. NeoNazi Skins are into Hardcore (really thrashy punk). Traditional Skins aren't racist just sort of "conservative youth" I guess you could say. Original Skins are anti-racists as well as SHARPs(skin heads against racial prejudice). OG Skins are supposedly originally from Jamaica so they are into Ska (real ska which came out of Jamaica, rock/raggea fusion) and hardcore aswell. "Conservative youth" type punks are sometimes referred to as Skunks, a cross of skin and punk.
There is probably a whole lot more out there too. You can read a bit about various subcultures at that forum I linked and erased not that long ago, the sykoforums. That's it's actual purpose really not just the random spouting of things that wouldn't be appropriate here.

Oh good heavens, it's gotten a lot more complicated since I was a kid! We pretty much had the preppies (the kids who shopped at the GAP for all their clothes), the jocks, the nerds, and the "ginkers" (that was our own term for the kids who cut classes all the time), but it wasn't always that clear-cut; you could be a preppy nerd, or a preppy jock, or a nerdy jock, and there was even one nerdy "ginker"...somehow he could get A's even while cutting half his classes -- drove the teachers nuts . We just didn't have exclusive cliques where you really had to conform to belong to the extent you heard about it in some schools.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I don't mean to sound like a bad person or anything, but the emo/punk/goth kids really annoy me. I just don't see the point in trying to be this 'individual' when it comes at a cost. The cost is that you look like a complete moron with fishnet stockings on your arms and crap like that. The guys also wear that stuff.
But yeah I agree with everything in the first post.
If you want to be an individual by dressing like an ass and listening to music you don't even like then that's ok I guess, but I can't stand how they have so much damn attitude. Being an individual and listening to Heavy Metal is no excuse to generally have no manners or to treat other people like sh*t.
That's the main reason they piss me off, as well as the fact that most of them don't listen to metal because they like it.
I won't say anymore though :)

There are definitely a lot of jerks among them who think they are better than everyone. There are still plenty of nice people among them too though. I tend to be rather attracted to Goth and Punk girls myself.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Oh good heavens, it's gotten a lot more complicated since I was a kid! We pretty much had the preppies (the kids who shopped at the GAP for all their clothes), the jocks, the nerds, and the "ginkers" (that was our own term for the kids who cut classes all the time), but it wasn't always that clear-cut; you could be a preppy nerd, or a preppy jock, or a nerdy jock, and there was even one nerdy "ginker"...somehow he could get A's even while cutting half his classes -- drove the teachers nuts . We just didn't have exclusive cliques where you really had to conform to belong to the extent you heard about it in some schools.

Yeah those are the basics. The bigger the city is the the more likely there are going to be people from several different subcultures. Really, for the most part, they're just music preferances/club scenes yet several of these people try to make such a narrow bit of culture into their identity.
I just like to consider myself a geek.

 

[Smurf]

Sometimes I wonder if you lot even realize how ridiculous and hipocritical you sound or if you're just too busy agreeing with each other to look at it.

 

[Kakarot]

emos are the kids who listen to linkin park and my chemical romance

 

[totallyclueless]

Sometimes I wonder if you lot even realize how ridiculous and hipocritical you sound or if you're just too busy agreeing with each other to look at it.

How do we sound hipocritical?

 

[saltydog]

You know, parents so desparately want to know what their kids are doing; they love them. But they get nothing, nada, nope, Italian? I digress. How nice to read a first-hand account of so secret a world, a glimpse into an otherwise, "what you doing, "nothing", where you going, "nowhere", who you going to be with, "nobody" world.

 

[matthyaouw]

Its often hard to weed out the attention seeking teens from the legitimately depressed teens. In my experience, people often seem to overlook that some teens (sterotype-fitting as they may be) do have real problems. There seems to be something of a prejudice against those that mope around depressed, and espescially those that harm themselves. People seem very inclined to just put it down to attention seeking, rather than considering the possibility they may have problems and need some help. I've known a lot of people go down that road, and while group influence and peer pressure may be one factor in the cause, it isn't the only one. Another common response to teen depression seems to be "Oh, they just need to grow up!" well yes, they are teenagers- they won't be as mature as adults, and they are growing up as we speak. This is just the route they've chosen to take.

In terms of clothes and music, I often see the same prejudice. I often hear people say how they are only doing it to follow a trend, etc. It rarely seems to occur to some people that others may actually enjoy gothic-industrial and like fishnet armbands. It may not be to your taste, granted, but if it is to theirs, deal with it.

I've been subjected to many a whine about whiney teenagers (oh the irony) who are all so superficial about their images, and it has often occurred to me that if the images of others can bother a person so much, they are frankly being as superficial as the people that they are accusing of the same.

 

[Pengwuino]

See, legitimate needs being diluted away! 1 kid is depressed while 100 others are "depressed" about not getting enough sex or because lincoln park told them to be depressed.

 

[inha]

Punks are definitely different now a days and there are several types of them, crusties being a derogatory term for a gutter punk. Emo is short for "emotional" and is more or less a variation on Indie and Punk. There are Hipsters which are mostly into the Indie music scene. Ska, sorry to say Evo, is pretty much dead. At least real Ska music is the 3rd/4th wave more or less melded together with punk. There are also Ravers and Gravers(goth ravers) also known as Cybergoths. There are RivetHeads, or just plain Rivets, who are into Industrial music which is more or less gritty aggressive sounding electronic music. Metalheads and Deathrockers. Greasers and Rockabillies. There are also subgenres there called Psychobilly and Gothabilly. Psychobilly is a more punk rock/metal version of rockabilly which apearantly incorperates zombies . Swing kids. Cyberpunks. Skinheads have become somewhat of a scene too. NeoNazi Skins are into Hardcore (really thrashy punk). Traditional Skins aren't racist just sort of "conservative youth" I guess you could say. Original Skins are anti-racists as well as SHARPs(skin heads against racial prejudice). OG Skins are supposedly originally from Jamaica so they are into Ska (real ska which came out of Jamaica, rock/raggea fusion) and hardcore aswell. "Conservative youth" type punks are sometimes referred to as Skunks, a cross of skin and punk.
There is probably a whole lot more out there too. You can read a bit about various subcultures at that forum I linked and erased not that long ago, the sykoforums. That's it's actual purpose really not just the random spouting of things that wouldn't be appropriate here.

crust refers to the musical style as much as it does to the look. politics plays a huge part in that scene too.

white power skins mostly listen to oi punk like trad skins. the wp bands usually suck ass musically. as if their message didn't make it bad enough already... hardcore doesn't really have anything to do with neo nazis. there are a few wp-hardcore bands though.

 

[Soilwork]

@ matthyaouw: The thing is fishnet stockings were made to be worn on the legs and dog collars were made to be worn by dogs. Like I said the thing that gets to me is that they wear things where they aren't meant to be worn. I never complained about the fact that they like metal and all the sub-genres because that's what I like, but what I was saying is that "some" listen to it even though they don't like it. Note the use of "some". When I said the emo kids piss me off I should have used the word 'some' there too, but I wasn't really paying that much attention. There are people with problems, but none of the people I know have problems. So I should have said that my comments were specifically based upon my own experience with 'some' emo kids.

 

[Norman]

Punks are definitely different now a days and there are several types of them, crusties being a derogatory term for a gutter punk. Emo is short for "emotional" and is more or less a variation on Indie and Punk. There are Hipsters which are mostly into the Indie music scene. Ska, sorry to say Evo, is pretty much dead. At least real Ska music is the 3rd/4th wave more or less melded together with punk. There are also Ravers and Gravers(goth ravers) also known as Cybergoths. There are RivetHeads, or just plain Rivets, who are into Industrial music which is more or less gritty aggressive sounding electronic music. Metalheads and Deathrockers. Greasers and Rockabillies. There are also subgenres there called Psychobilly and Gothabilly. Psychobilly is a more punk rock/metal version of rockabilly which apearantly incorperates zombies . Swing kids. Cyberpunks. Skinheads have become somewhat of a scene too. NeoNazi Skins are into Hardcore (really thrashy punk). Traditional Skins aren't racist just sort of "conservative youth" I guess you could say. Original Skins are anti-racists as well as SHARPs(skin heads against racial prejudice). OG Skins are supposedly originally from Jamaica so they are into Ska (real ska which came out of Jamaica, rock/raggea fusion) and hardcore aswell. "Conservative youth" type punks are sometimes referred to as Skunks, a cross of skin and punk.
There is probably a whole lot more out there too. You can read a bit about various subcultures at that forum I linked and erased not that long ago, the sykoforums. That's it's actual purpose really not just the random spouting of things that wouldn't be appropriate here.

You really treated the skinhead scene with kidgloves there- but it is accurate none the less. Don't forget all the subgenres of Hardcore. You have your old school, new school, straight edge (bands that talk about the virtues of NOT drinking, smoking, having meaningless sex, etc.), emo (you have already touched on that), scremo, thrash, grindcore, crustcore, Oi!-inspired hardcore (think late Agnostic Front), New York Hardcore (NYHC), etc.

I think the original poster doesn't understand the punk rock movement very well. I understand the original poster's disdain for high school cliques, etc. While the punk rock scenes can be filled with the usual teenage excesses of drug use, drinking, etc., they also are a community for a lot of troubled kids to feel good about something in their lives. I won't go into the politics of punk rock, but giving kids an outlet for their aggression, pain, anger, etc., is a good thing. It gives people who don't share mainstream ideals a place to have understanding and feel safe with "outside the box" feelings and ideas.

I sang in a couple of punk rock bands up to coming to graduate school and I met a lot of really great people. It is really a youth subculture, where I met a lot of young kids who were just looking for acceptance. I also met a lot of kids who had really messed up lives and a lot of kids who really messed up their lives.

I think that suburban "mall punks" are a lot different than your "true" punks.

Just my two cents worth.
Cheers.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

crust refers to the musical style as much as it does to the look. politics plays a huge part in that scene too.

white power skins mostly listen to oi punk like trad skins. the wp bands usually suck ass musically. as if their message didn't make it bad enough already... hardcore doesn't really have anything to do with neo nazis. there are a few wp-hardcore bands though.

I didn't realize that the crusties had their own musical subgenre. Interesting.
I did forget about Oi, true. Most of the Skins I have meet are into hardcore. I'm not in the scene or even the punk scene, though I enjoy punk music, so I'm not that familiar with all the flavors.

You really treated the skinhead scene with kidgloves there...

You mean I wasn't very critical of them as a group? Or I didn't add much detail?
I didn't really feel like making this into something about ideology, even though it kinda is. I figure just calling them skins or NeoNazis is enough to say that they aren't necessarily nice people and saying that some of them aren't racists is enough to show that they aren't all necessarily a**holes.

I think that suburban "mall punks" are a lot different than your "true" punks.

True.. the rich kids or borgeoisi that are rebelling against mommy and daddy more than anything else. I try not to label people as real/true *something* or not though because then I start to sound like the 133tist jerks that really annoy me more lol. But it's sometimes warranted.

 

[inha]

I think that suburban "mall punks" are a lot different than your "true" punks.

And us academic punks are above all!

I think the difference lies at the point where some "grow out of this childish nonsense" and some stick with it. I'll admit that I'm a bit of an elitist and a puritanist about this. It's just that after having sticked with it because of the great music, great friends and good times people that carry the label for a few years and are all "hardcore fo life nigga" for that time and then just vanish because they've rebelled for long enough and it's time to start a normal life piss me off.

 

[Pengwuino]

Something I've noticed a loooooooooooot lately is that all these idiots who were gaga over nsync and the backstreet boys and all that kinda ****ty music have migrated over to the "punk" scene wehre now they go nuts over hte newest what, coldplay or something album. And what's even stupider is that i swear these idiots arent actually playing their instrument. They are jumping up and down and almost killing each other with their guitars and the music is playing perfectly! And they can't sing either! Half the crap i see is like, monotone scratchy voices. Seems like the face of music is no longer a good musician and a good voice, but a good technical group.

Mind you, I am just talken about i suppose the 'popular punk scene' that you see on the late night shows and that carson daily idiot.

 

[Norman]

You mean I wasn't very critical of them as a group? Or I didn't add much detail?
I didn't really feel like making this into something about ideology, even though it kinda is. I figure just calling them skins or NeoNazis is enough to say that they aren't necessarily nice people and saying that some of them aren't racists is enough to show that they aren't all necessarily a**holes.

True.. the rich kids or borgeoisi that are rebelling against mommy and daddy more than anything else. I try not to label people as real/true *something* or not though because then I start to sound like the 133tist jerks that really annoy me more lol. But it's sometimes warranted.

Really both for the skinhead scene. I thought you gave a good, balanced explanation- without going into the politics of the scene which are very complicated.

As for the "real" or "not-real" thing. I use quotes because who to say who is the heart and soul of punk rock and what is real punk, but their are definite differences between pop-punk bands that most people are accustomed to and the other genres. I agree with you, that statement came out a little more high and mighty than I wanted it to.

Anyways, I think this is a funny post. As a guy who has strayed from his true punk rock lifestyle- graduate school and getting married this weekend do not allow me the liberty of not caring about ending up in the clink at the end of the night. Also, I don't really enjoy going to shows anymore. I used to at least tolerate the drunk and drugged out high school kids, the thugs, and the general attitude, but the last couple of years- it is annoying and not worth the effort of cost of admission.

So maybe, according to some people, I have "sold out" or "hung up my boots" but life goes on. I still care about the things I sang about, I just don't use my music to convey my message anymore.

By the way, punk rock was never meant for the mainstream. As one of the gravel voiced, screaming hardcore singers out there- it is all about the message and the aggression- not about sounding pretty. (The musicians will usually tell you it is how tightly they can play the song together- getting that exact timing- that perfect change of cadence) That is why it is not made for TV and the mainstream and as far as I am concerned, doesn't belong there. How can a subculture still be a subculture when it shows up on "late night with conan o'brien"?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Punks are definitely different now a days and there are several types of them, crusties being a derogatory term for a gutter punk. Emo is short for "emotional" and is more or less a variation on Indie and Punk. There are Hipsters which are mostly into the Indie music scene. Ska, sorry to say Evo, is pretty much dead. At least real Ska music is the 3rd/4th wave more or less melded together with punk. There are also Ravers and Gravers(goth ravers) also known as Cybergoths. There are RivetHeads, or just plain Rivets, who are into Industrial music which is more or less gritty aggressive sounding electronic music. Metalheads and Deathrockers. Greasers and Rockabillies. There are also subgenres there called Psychobilly and Gothabilly. Psychobilly is a more punk rock/metal version of rockabilly which apearantly incorperates zombies . Swing kids. Cyberpunks. Skinheads have become somewhat of a scene too. NeoNazi Skins are into Hardcore (really thrashy punk). Traditional Skins aren't racist just sort of "conservative youth" I guess you could say. Original Skins are anti-racists as well as SHARPs(skin heads against racial prejudice). OG Skins are supposedly originally from Jamaica so they are into Ska (real ska which came out of Jamaica, rock/raggea fusion) and hardcore aswell. "Conservative youth" type punks are sometimes referred to as Skunks, a cross of skin and punk.
There is probably a whole lot more out there too. You can read a bit about various subcultures at that forum I linked and erased not that long ago, the sykoforums. That's it's actual purpose really not just the random spouting of things that wouldn't be appropriate here.

I thought that you might be interested in knowing that a copy of this is being used at a conference for education; as an introduction to the upcoming generation. Unfortunately, many people will soon believe that "Evo" is a subculture.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Norman, well said. It's kinda sad to lose artistic passions, I hope that you still express yourself in some manner if not music. Starting a family is definitely a good reason to get out of the rock n roller scene though.

I thought that you might be interested in knowing that a copy of this is being used at a conference for education; as an introduction to the upcoming generation. Unfortunately, many people will soon believe that "Evo" is a subculture.

EVO would make a great new subculture. We'll have to try to have her explain what the scene is all about for us.
So what sort of music is indicative of the EVOculture?

 

[Evo]

EVO would make a great new subculture. We'll have to try to have her explain what the scene is all about for us.
So what sort of music is indicative of the EVOculture?

The haunting and riveting melodies of the nose flute. Need I say more?

http://www.hotpipes.com/sean10.html

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

No... I really don't think anything more needs to be said at all...

 

[cronxeh]

hehe.. today's punks jump off from NYU library rooftops

dumbasses.