James Hansen’s Former NASA Supervisor Declares Himself a Skeptic

  • Context: NASA 
  • Thread starter Thread starter wolram
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Nasa
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the skepticism towards anthropogenic global warming (AGW) and the implications of dissenting scientific opinions. Participants explore the motivations behind scientific consensus, the role of funding and political agendas, and the validity of claims made by both proponents and opponents of AGW.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether scientists are distancing themselves from AGW and whether the potential financial implications are too significant to ignore.
  • Concerns are raised about the politicization of science, with some arguing that science should focus on uncovering truths rather than pursuing political goals.
  • A few participants mention a report of 650 dissenting scientists and draw parallels to other scientific controversies, such as evolution, suggesting that dissenting voices may be marginalized.
  • There are claims that the number of dissenting scientists should be compared to those supporting AGW to assess the validity of the consensus.
  • Some argue that motivations behind scientific positions may include financial incentives, questioning the integrity of scientists on both sides of the debate.
  • Participants express skepticism about the existence of a true consensus on AGW, with some claiming that the consensus may only reflect the views of those already inclined to believe in AGW.
  • Discussions touch on the importance of expertise, with some participants indicating a preference for specialists in relevant fields over those from unrelated disciplines.
  • Concerns are raised about the reliability of data interpretation and the potential biases that may influence scientific conclusions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of AGW or the motivations of scientists involved in the debate. Multiple competing views remain, with ongoing disagreements about the nature of scientific consensus and the implications of dissenting opinions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of clarity on the qualifications of the scientists cited in various claims, the potential biases in funding sources, and the absence of comprehensive data on the relative sizes of scientific communities involved in AGW versus dissenting views.

Physics news on Phys.org
So are scientists dropping AGW or distancing them selves from it, is $trillion to much to gamble with?
 
Before all, science should be about science, the art of finding out how things really work, and not pursuing political goals.
 
...We have just received a request from an Italian scientist, and a Czech scientist to join the 650 dissenting scientists report...

Recall that I already posted a link showing that there are more scientists than this who refute evolution theory.

Is everyone jumping on the creationist bandwagon as well?
 
Ivan Seeking said:
Recall that I already posted a link showing that there are more scientists than this who refute evolution theory.

So, maybe we shouldn't be listening to all these scientists because a bunch of other scientists from an unrelated field refute evolution?
 
drankin said:
So, maybe we shouldn't be listening to all these scientists because a bunch of other scientists from an unrelated field refute evolution?

I would say that 650 scientists amount to nothing more than a fringe element.

I can probably find 650 scientists who think ET is visiting us as well.
 
Andre said:
Before all, science should be about science, the art of finding out how things really work, and not pursuing political goals.


Andre, who would gain from AGW, i guess now the political ball is rolling it will be hard to stop it, it has all ways seemed to me that politicians do not need facts.
 
wolram said:
Andre, who would gain from AGW...

Who stands to gain by arguing against it? Could it be big oil?
 
Ivan Seeking said:
I would say that 650 scientists amount to nothing more than a fringe element.

I can probably find 650 scientists who think ET is visiting us as well.

I guess we need to compare the scientist counts. How many are for and against. And what constitutes as a "fringe".
 
  • #10
Everyone knows all scientists who support AGW are only in it to jump on the band wagon so they can get grants and funding from new age hippies et al. Besides I heard someone say they were all idiots who have no idea what they are talking about, I think it might of been the Chairman of Exxon before he was launched into space?

In all seriousness skepticism is what science is about, so who cares about the doubters, they are only there to either destroy or make the theory stronger by failing, that is after all science?
 
  • #11
drankin said:
I guess we need to compare the scientist counts. How many are for and against. And what constitutes as a "fringe".

Are scientists who refute evolution theory fringe, or mainstream? What about ET believers?

Show me a crackpot group that doesn't claim a few scientists. Woud you like to talk about magnet therapy?
 
  • #12
Ivan Seeking said:
Who stands to gain by arguing against it? Could it be big oil?

It could be big oil. And on the otherside, big government (taxes). But that's not the point. Comes down to data interpretation so far as I can see.
 
  • #13
Ivan Seeking said:
Are scientists who refute evolution theory fringe, or mainstream?

I don't know and I don't care, it's not the topic.
 
  • #14
anybody bothered to google for Enron + kyoto?
 
  • #15
drankin said:
I don't know and I don't care, it's not the topic.

Indeed.

I would agree that you certainly can't compare numbers in one field with numbers in a completely different field, without giving any data on the relative size of the communities.
 
  • #16
drankin said:
I don't know and I don't care, it's not the topic.

It sure is; it speaks to the issue of consensus vs fringe.
 
  • #17
Ivan Seeking said:
It sure is; it speaks to the issue of consensus vs fringe.

I think Bohmian mechanics vs quantum mechanics with the Copenhagen interpretation would be a better analogy, then you can ignore all the fundamentalists.

I think the issue of expertise is a good one, I'm far more likely to take a scientist in the field seriously than I am a geologist or a physicist even.
 
  • #18
cristo said:
Indeed.

I would agree that you certainly can't compare numbers in one field with numbers in a completely different field, without giving any data on the relative size of the communities.

The "650 scientists" were cited in the link from the op. And as I said, I already linked a story about scientists who refute evolution in a thread in P&WA. IIRC, they claim over 700 scientists, so clearly they have the upper hand compared to this group. :rolleyes:

Excuse me, you said relative size. How many scientists work in related fields? I would say that AGW is a much broader subject.
 
Last edited:
  • #21
Andre, how much revenue does your country receive from North Sea oil?
 
  • #22
Just because more people voted to put Bush in office doesn't make him or them right any more than a bunch of "supposed" scientists "voting" on the issue of global warming.

It's not a vote. The only real vote is the evidence and what it reveals.

The rest is opinion derived from imperfect perspectives and motives and foundational faith - interpretational accuracy in matters that effect livelihood and grant funding and even touch matters of religion, I'd say is dubiously quantifiable.
 
  • #23
As to the original post, that headline is from the Republican Minority reporting through their page on the Senate EPW Web site.

That put's it a hair less reactionary than citing Rush Limbaugh.
 
  • #24
Remember, the current view on AGW is supposedly supported by a "consensus" of scientists. That's why the relative size of a dissenting group could be important.
 
  • #25
seycyrus said:
Remember, the current view on AGW is supposedly supported by a "consensus" of scientists. That's why the relative size of a dissenting group could be important.

We have to take into account 3 things

  • Bias on both sides
  • Qualifications of those who deny/accept it
  • Funding by who?

which all boils down to ulterior motive, in science we can resort to authority but I think it's better to resort to more rigorously examined authority. In the case of AGW we have that I think. It doesn't mean they are right, it just means they have better cards in their hand atm.
 
  • #26
seycyrus said:
Remember, the current view on AGW is supposedly supported by a "consensus" of scientists. That's why the relative size of a dissenting group could be important.


Yes, and do we know which scientists took part in the census and if they were politically impartial, to my mind this debate needs freshening up.
 
  • #27
The Dagda said:
... In the case of AGW we have that I think.

I don't think we do.

After sifting through evidence including a fair amount of information gathered from this forum, I am less convinced than I once was.

As to the "consensus"... I am certain about that. There *never* was a consensus. Maybe a consensus of people who already believed...

I still remember the uproar at the APS social policy meeting several years back when the statement reporting the "consensus" was read out loud.
 
  • #28
seycyrus said:
I don't think we do.

After sifting through evidence including a fair amount of information gathered from this forum, I am less convinced than I once was.

As to the "consensus"... I am certain about that. There *never* was a consensus. Maybe a consensus of people who already believed...

I still remember the uproar at the APS social policy meeting several years back when the statement reporting the "consensus" was read out loud.

Evidence from where and whom and were they specialists in the field can I ask? Even the IPCC was anti global warming until the early 90's, what made them change their minds do you think? Funding? political agendas?

Anyone who basis his opinion on a forums evidence is sadly neglecting to look into it themselves, if all you are getting is the contrary opinion then you aren't getting anything balanced.

It would be nice to think that those who shout the loudest and most ardently for or against are right by default of persistence, but then we have Gore and Bush. And we don't want to go there. :eek:
 
Last edited:
  • #29
Ivan Seeking said:
Are scientists who refute evolution theory fringe, or mainstream? What about ET believers?

Show me a crackpot group that doesn't claim a few scientists. Woud you like to talk about magnet therapy?
You are dragging this thread off topic with irrelevant posts.

The scientists in the OP are using valid science and are talking about the problems with methods and data. Flaws in the modules used have been proven. Flaws in the methodolgy have been proven - flaws with how the data was used, included, or omitted has been proven.

Please remain on topic.
 
Last edited:
  • #30
The Dagda said:
Evidence from where and whom and were they specialists in the field can I ask? Even the IPCC was anti global warming until the early 90's, what made them change their minds do you think? Funding? political agendas?

well The IPCC was
established in 1988 by two United Nations Organizations, the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations Environment Programme to assess “the scientific, technical and socioeconomic information relevant for the understanding of the risk of human-induced climate change.”...

The First Assessment Report (FAR), completed in 1990, played an important role in establishing the Intergovernmental Negotiating Committee for the UNFCCC which provides the overall policy framework for addressing the climate change issue. In its scientific findings the FAR concluded:

“Anthropogenic climate change will persist for many centuries.”

The bold part may suggest that the conclusions were already clear before the research was done
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

News Scientists jumping off the warming train
  • · Replies 237 ·
8
Replies
237
Views
30K