Jourdain Principle - anybody using it ?

  • Thread starter Oberst Villa
  • Start date
  • Tags
    Principle
In summary, the Jourdain principle states that for large systems with many degrees of freedom, the derivatives of the Lagrange equations can be a lot of work to calculate. There is general agreement that this principle should be used in these cases, similar to the d'Alembert principle. If you are already familiar with D'Alembert's principle, you already know Jourdain's principle.
  • #1
Oberst Villa
111
2
While reading about Lagrange equations, I found the following remark about the Jourdain principle (I try a quickndirty translation of the german original, hope it makes sense):

"For big systems with very many degrees of freedom - especially in vehicle dynamics and aerospace - the many derivatives in the Lagrange equations result in a considerable effort. There is general agreement that in this cases the Jourdain Principle should be preferred, which is similar to the d'Alambert principle".

Now I'm not looking for an explanation of the principle, but for a statement like "Yep, it's usefull for doing xyz". So that I know whether I should add it to the list in my brain of the 1 trillion things I have to learn someday...
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
  • #2
If you are already familiar with Lagrange's form of D'Alembert's Principle (the variational statement often referred to as D'Alembert's Principle)

[tex]
\sum_{i \in bodies}{(m_i\vec{a}_i-\vec{F}_i) \cdot \delta{\vec{r}_{i}} = 0
[/tex]

and know how to use it to solve multibody problems then for all practical purposes you already know Jourdain's Principle.

D'Alembert's Principal uses virtual displacements ([tex]\delta{\vec{r}_{i}}[/tex]), which expand to

[tex]
\delta{\vec{r}_{i}} = \sum_{j \in coords}{\frac{\partial{\vec{r}_i}}{\partial{q}_j}\delta{q_j}
[/tex]

Jourdain's statement is a virtual power law
[tex]
\sum_{i \in bodies}{(m_i\vec{a}_i-\vec{F}_i) \cdot \bf{\delta{v_{i}}} = 0
[/tex]

with
[tex]
\bf{\delta{v_{i}}} = \sum_{j \in coords}{\frac{\partial{\vec{v}_i}}{\partial{\dot{q}}_j}\delta{\dot{q}_j}
[/tex]

Note that this is NOT the variation of velocity, as there would also have to be a partial with [tex]q_j[/tex]. Even so, Jourdain's Principle is more than the second variation of D'Alembert's Principle because finite variations of the "velocity" are admissible... If one leaves all constraint forces explicit in the statement of D'Alembert's Principle, you can arrive at Jourdain's Principle through direct time differentiation and acknowledging that each of the three terms in the distributed derivative must be zero independently (by Newton's Law).

The advantage of Jourdain (and Gauss) is that the higher order is necessary to represent nonholonomic velocity(acceleration) constraints such as a caster, ice skate, or coin rolling without slip, where the space of displacements has more coordinates than the velocities. It is also often easier to enforce mechanism kinematic looping constraints in this way (four bar linkage has three coordinates but only one Degree of Freedom), and when doing so they are referred to as "simple nonholonomic" because they are integrable (but very ugly) and therefore holonomic.

Everyone using "Kane's Method" or a "generic velocity projection scheme" is using Jourdain's Principle. It is VERY popular.

Enjoy!
 
Last edited:

1. What is the Jourdain Principle and how is it used?

The Jourdain Principle is a scientific concept that states that "nothing is certain, but everything is possible." It is often used in physics and philosophy to describe the uncertainty and possibility that exists in the world. It can also be applied to decision-making and problem-solving processes.

2. Who is credited with the discovery of the Jourdain Principle?

The Jourdain Principle is named after French mathematician and philosopher, P. E. B. Jourdain. However, the concept can be traced back to the 17th century philosopher, René Descartes.

3. How does the Jourdain Principle relate to the scientific method?

The Jourdain Principle is often used in conjunction with the scientific method as it acknowledges the idea that scientific theories and hypotheses are not absolute truths, but rather are subject to change and revision based on new evidence and discoveries.

4. Can the Jourdain Principle be applied to real-life situations?

Yes, the Jourdain Principle can be applied to various aspects of life, including decision-making, problem-solving, and even personal growth. It encourages individuals to consider all possibilities and be open to change and uncertainty.

5. Are there any criticisms of the Jourdain Principle?

Some critics argue that the Jourdain Principle is too vague and can lead to a lack of firm conclusions or decisions. Others believe that it undermines the concept of scientific knowledge and truth. However, many still find value in its acknowledgement of the complexity and uncertainty of the world.

Similar threads

  • Mechanical Engineering
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
16
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
4
Views
888
  • Quantum Interpretations and Foundations
Replies
27
Views
2K
  • Engineering and Comp Sci Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
5K
  • Beyond the Standard Models
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • Set Theory, Logic, Probability, Statistics
2
Replies
45
Views
3K
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
8
Views
960
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
3K
Back
Top