Kansas votes to endorse ignorance

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the recent vote by the Kansas school board to adopt new teaching standards that include Intelligent Design language. Participants explore the implications of these standards on scientific education, the definition of science, and the broader societal attitudes towards evolution and religious beliefs.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express concern that the new standards promote ignorance and undermine scientific integrity, with one board member claiming it will enhance academic freedom.
  • Others argue that the redefinition of science to include non-natural explanations is troubling and could lead to legal challenges.
  • There are claims that the scientific community has exaggerated evidence for evolution, which could damage its credibility and empower creationist views.
  • Some participants emphasize that scientific evidence for evolution exists, including genetic tracing from advanced creatures to bacteria, countering the notion that the Kansas ruling reflects scientific failings.
  • One participant suggests that the rejection of evolution by a majority of Americans may stem from the perceived arrogance of scientists and educators when addressing non-scientific beliefs.
  • Another viewpoint highlights the need for sensitivity in discussions about beliefs, arguing that mocking faith-based perspectives alienates potential allies in the scientific community.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus on the implications of the Kansas school board's decision. Some agree on the potential negative impact on scientific education, while others defend the validity of evolutionary theory and criticize the motivations behind the new standards.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the limitations of the discussion, including the lack of clarity on how the new definition of science will be applied and the unresolved nature of the claims regarding the evidence for evolution.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to educators, policymakers, and individuals concerned with the intersection of science and religion, as well as those studying public perceptions of evolutionary theory.

  • #211
pattylou's post reminded me of this.

A Creation "Science" Geologic Time Scale

(1) 4000 B.C. Creation Week: (laws of science suspended)

Day 1 - Space, light & dark, Earth materials.
Day 2 - Waters above and waters below.
Day 3 - Earth's crust and plants.
Day 4 - Sun, moon, and stars in place.
Day 5 - Atmosphere + animals of the waters.
Day 6 - Land animals + Adam & Eve.
Day 7 - Day of rest.

1,500 years. Pre-Flood "Geology." Laws of science invalid.

(2) Adam and Eve, talking snakes, etc.

(3) World's waters are in great Venus-like atmosphere or in ground
water. No rain, no ocean basins.

(4) Radiometric dating invalid; speed of light changed.

(5) Humans, dinosaurs, mammals, the "works," all live together in
peace. Both lions and Tyranosaurus Rex are vegetarians in Eden before
the "fall."

(6) Human life spans up to 900 years.

(7) Battle of Satan and angels produces craters on moon.

Flood Year: Flood "Geology" - ONE (?) year of normal (?) "science"

Rain - 40 days

(8) Big animals run to mountain tops. Not a single dumb human caught
in all the early flood sediments. All dinosaurs washed off only in
middle flood-time.

(9) Coral reefs (Guadalupe Mountains of Texas) grow to thicknesses of
half a mile during single year.

(10) Vast coal beds accumulate one on top of another, each as original
swamp deposits on order of 100 feet thick, all in one year.

(11) Mile-thick salt formations in Utah form by evaporation (!) of
seawater during (!) the flood.

Flood - about 250 days.

(12) Most of the world's sedimentary rocks dumped on continents to
average thickness of one mile, almost entirely during the flood year.

(13) Most continental drift occurs. Flood waters drain into the newly
formed ocean basins. Atlantic opens at average rate of 1/2 mile per
hour.

(14) Most deep sea sediments (average about 1,500 feet thick) collect
on the newly opened ocean floors.

(15) Hawaiian volcano built 30,000 feet high on new sea floor. (Cools
enough for birds and plants from Ark to colonize soon after end of
flood year.)

Final Retreat - ? 100 days ?

(16)Volcano of Mount Ararat built 7,000 feet high underwater and cools
in time for grounding of the Ark.

(17) Successive Yellowstone ash beds bury 10 to 27 forests one on top
of another, all grown during single year.

(18) Grand Canyon cut by receding flood waters. Flood sediments
de-water and harden in one year to rock strong enough to stand as
steep, mile-high cliffs.

Post-Flood Geology - 4,500 years of normal (?) science to Present

(19)From Ark, Noah (?) directs streams of distinctive animal and plant
communities to migrate to Africa, Australia, South America, etc.
(Ferry service ?) (Some creationists use post-flood continental
drift at rates up to one mile per hour !)

(20)Sun stands still for Israelite battle. Earth stops rotating and
then starts again due to near-miss by Venus out of its orbit ?
(Velikovsky)

(21)Only one ice age as post-flood atmosphere cools.
Geologists' abundant evidence of many great ice advances
separated by sub-tropical vegetation and development of thick soil zones
between some advances are wrong.

(22)Late-flood granite masses, formed at 1,000 degrees (F.), cool to
present low temperatures at rates in violation of all laws of thermal
physics. Fit to radiometric dates is mere coincidence.

(23)Extreme rates of continental drift typical of flood (1/2 mile per
hour) suddenly slow to present-day laser-measured rates of inches per
year. Accord of present rates with radiometric dates is mere chance.

(24)Coral reefs (Bikini, Eniwetok) grow 1/2 to 1 mile thick in first
1,000 years (rate of one foot per month) then slow to present measured
rates of inches per century.

http://chem.tufts.edu/science/Geology/Wise/CreationistGeologyRefuted.htm
 
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  • #212
In addition, the board rewrote the definition of science, so that it is no longer limited to the search for natural explanations of phenomena.
Rewirting the deftion of Science!:mad: :mad: It's not there job to rewirte the deftion of secince there soppesed teach not make it up!:mad:
Intllgent design is NOTa secinetific theory there's no way it can expermited it's just somthing to combine chuch and state.What are they soppesd teaching them all what Intellgent says that somthing desingned and created the Universe that made life complex
 
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  • #213
(4) Radiometric dating invalid; speed of light changed. :rolleyes: :smile:

(7) Battle of Satan :devil: and angels o:) produces craters on moon. :smile:

(20) Sun stands still for Israelite battle. Earth stops rotating and
then starts again due to near-miss by Venus out of its orbit ? :smile:

I think in that part of the world, the prevailing idea of the time was that the sun traveled across the sky. Later many people had the idea that the Earth was the center of the universe.

(22) . . . Fit to radiometric dates is mere coincidence. :smile:

And they want to be taken seriously?


(5) Humans, dinosaurs, mammals, the "works," all live together in
peace. Both lions and Tyranosaurus Rex are vegetarians in Eden before
the "fall."

(19)From Ark, Noah (?) directs streams of distinctive animal and plant
communities to migrate to Africa, Australia, South America, etc.
One of the obvious problems here is that Noah and his people did not know of the existence of these other places. Also, while there were Hebrew words for many animals, there were no words to name or describe any of the animals found in other parts of the world.

I'd go on, but I am exhausted from laughing so hard!

Merry Christmas. Ho, Ho, Ho!
 
  • #214
Evo said:
Flood Year: Flood "Geology" - ONE (?) year of normal (?) "science"
Rain - 40 days
(8) Big animals run to mountain tops. Not a single dumb human caught
in all the early flood sediments. All dinosaurs washed off only in
middle flood-time.

Not to mention that, somehow, all the immobile lifeforms and all things buried pre-Flood do not show up in the oldest rocks. Anyone dig up a Precambrian human cemetary yet?

(18) Grand Canyon cut by receding flood waters. Flood sediments
de-water and harden in one year to rock strong enough to stand as
steep, mile-high cliffs.

..with preferential fossil sorting in each layer of course...
 

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