Lagrangian for electromagnetic field derivation

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SUMMARY

The forum discussion focuses on the derivation of the Lorentz force law in the context of classical electromagnetism. The author presents a method to express the Lorentz force law using the equation $$\frac{dA_j}{dt}=\frac{d}{dt}(\frac{\partial{}}{\partial{v_j}}(v.A-q∅))$$, emphasizing the clever manipulation of terms to achieve this form. Additionally, the discussion highlights the beauty of the quantum derivation found in a referenced book, which connects local SU(1) symmetry to the existence of the Higgs particle. The conversation underscores the importance of understanding both classical and quantum perspectives in electromagnetic theory.

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  • Understanding of classical electromagnetism concepts, specifically the Lorentz force law.
  • Familiarity with vector calculus and partial derivatives.
  • Knowledge of quantum mechanics and local symmetry principles.
  • Access to advanced physics literature, particularly on quantum field theory.
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  • Study the derivation of the Lorentz force law in classical electromagnetism.
  • Explore the quantum derivation of electromagnetic fields as discussed in the book "Quantum Field Theory" by Franz Mandl and Graham Shaw.
  • Research local SU(1) symmetry and its implications in particle physics.
  • Investigate the relationship between classical and quantum theories in electromagnetism.
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Physicists, students of electromagnetism, and anyone interested in the connections between classical and quantum theories in physics will benefit from this discussion.

TimeRip496
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" We can put the Lorentz force law into this form by being clever. First, we write
$$\frac{dA_j}{dt}=\frac{d}{dt}(\frac{\partial{}}{\partial{v_j}}(v.A)),$$
since the partial derivative will pick out only the jth component of the dot product. Now, since the scalar potential is independent of the velocity, we can add on a term containing it inside the partial derivative:
$$\frac{dA_j}{dt}=\frac{d}{dt}(\frac{\partial{}}{\partial{v_j}}(v.A-q∅)),$$ "

I don't understand the rationale behind these. It seems like the author is trying to get to the final equation so he guess the steps in order to get to the final equation.

Source: https://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/02/no/pdfs/lorentz.pdf
Page 2 below eqn(13)
 
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TimeRip496 said:
" We can put the Lorentz force law into this form by being clever. First, we write
$$\frac{dA_j}{dt}=\frac{d}{dt}(\frac{\partial{}}{\partial{v_j}}(v.A)),$$
..
Source: https://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/02/no/pdfs/lorentz.pdf
Page 2 below eqn(13)
The link does not work for me - waits until timeout.
 
The link worked for me.

However it is classical - not quantum so really should be in the classical physics section.

However the quantum derivation is very very beautiful and much more illuminating.

You will find it in page 129 of the following book:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/3319192000/?tag=pfamazon01-20

The basis, as I think was first discovered by Schwinger, is local SU(1) symmetry.

The same kind of reasoning leads to the existence of the Higgs for example - and much more. It is well worth your study.

Thanks
Bill
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I hadn't seen this non-covariant derivation anywhere, so a big thank you to the OP for bringing it up.
 

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