Applying Euler-Lagrange to (real) Klein-Gordon Lagrangian

In summary, the conversation discusses a confusion about the application of the Euler-Lagrange equation in finding the equations of motion and showing that they are the Klein-Gordon equation. The confusion arises in the first term of the equation and the answer suggests using the metric to raise one of the indices before differentiation. The conversation also discusses the rules of respecting the Einstein convention, not mixing partial derivatives shorthand notation, and using the metric tensor to place indices in an expression involving derivatives. After properly applying the metric, the confusion is resolved.
  • #1
joebentley10
3
1
I'm currently studying Quantum Field Theory and I have a confusion about some mathematics in page 30 of Mandl's Quantum Field Theory (Wiley 2010).

Here is a screenshot of the relevant part: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fsjnb3kmvmgc9p2/Screenshot 2017-01-24 18.10.10.png?dl=0

My issue is in finding the equations of motion and showing that they are the Klein-Gordon equation. So first we apply the Euler-Lagrange equation:

[tex] \frac{\partial}{\partial x^\alpha} \left(\frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial \phi_{,\alpha}} \right) - \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial \phi} = 0 [/tex]

where [itex]\mathcal{L}[/itex] is the Lagrangian density and [itex]\phi_{,\alpha} \equiv \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x^\alpha}[/itex]

My confusion arises in the first term of the Euler-Lagrange equation when we substitute in our Lagrangian density. The answer suggests we should find the first term equal to [itex]\Box \phi \equiv \partial_\alpha \partial^\alpha \phi[/itex]. If we substitute in for the first term we get:

[tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial x^\alpha} \left(\frac{\partial}{\partial \phi_{,\alpha}} \left[ \frac{1}{2} \phi_{,\alpha} \phi_,^{\,\alpha} \right]\right)[/tex]

for which we expect the term in [itex]( \dots )[/itex] to equal [itex]\frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x_\alpha} \equiv \partial^\alpha \phi[/itex] so that the answer is [itex]\Box \phi \equiv \partial_\alpha \partial^\alpha \phi[/itex].

I can see how we can use the metric to raise one of the indices before differentiation, so we get a "product rule" which cancels the factor of 2, but then I'm still confused as to why the answer is contravariant (i.e. why the alpha is upstairs) rather than covariant (downstairs). We are differentiate with respect to the derivative of the field, and somehow this gives us a contravariant derivative? I'm not sure about the mathematical justification of this.

If anyone has any mathematical intuition to give me I would be very grateful, when my lecturer went through this it was very handwavey, basically just "a derivative of a derivative makes the index go upstairs", but that doesn't satisfy me mathematically.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
1st rule: Respect the Einstein convention. In your equation alpha is written 4 times, it should be appearing only once (if free) or two times If summed after.
2nd rule: Don't mix partial derivatives shorthand notation. You either use the comma/semi-colon convention throughout, or at all.
3rd rule: Use the metric tensor to place indices in an expression involving derivatives either all upstairs or all downstairs. Then you will automatically discover why the end result has the index in that position.
 
  • #3
dextercioby said:
1st rule: Respect the Einstein convention. In your equation alpha is written 4 times, it should be appearing only once (if free) or two times If summed after.
2nd rule: Don't mix partial derivatives shorthand notation. You either use the comma/semi-colon convention throughout, or at all.
3rd rule: Use the metric tensor to place indices in an expression involving derivatives either all upstairs or all downstairs. Then you will automatically discover why the end result has the index in that position.

Yes sorry about the 1st. About the 2nd it is used like that in Mandl and my QFT course but I understand that it is confusing. I'd usually use the partial derivatives shorthand, but I wanted it to make sense relative to the screenshot.

So in the 3rd. For example if I lower the second derivative w.r.t phi I get,

[tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial x^\alpha} \left(\frac{\partial}{\partial \phi_{,\alpha}} \left[ \frac{1}{2} g^{\mu\nu} \phi_{,\nu} \phi_{,\mu} \right]\right)
[/tex]

and then I differentiate w.r.t [itex]\phi_{,\alpha}[/itex] using the product rule. Well the metric doesn't depend on the field derivative so that's okay, but I still differentiate with respect to the derivative to get,

[tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial x^\alpha} \left(\frac{\partial}{\partial \phi_{,\alpha}} \left[ \frac{1}{2} g^{\mu\nu} \phi_{,\nu} \phi_{,\mu} \right]\right) = \frac{\partial}{\partial x^\alpha} \left(\phi_{,\alpha}\right)[/tex]

i.e. the derivative is still downstairs which is illegal. I could use the metric to bring them both upstairs instead but I can't differentiate w.r.t that using a downstairs derivative, can I?

EDIT: One sec I think my mistake is neglecting to apply the metric, i.e. I just seem to let it disappear after the differentiation. I will try it again
 
  • #4
Yep indeed it did work after properly applying the metric. Thank you dextercioby!
 
  • Like
Likes dextercioby

FAQ: Applying Euler-Lagrange to (real) Klein-Gordon Lagrangian

What is the Euler-Lagrange equation?

The Euler-Lagrange equation is a mathematical tool used to find the equations of motion for a system described by a Lagrangian. It is derived from the principle of least action, which states that the actual path taken by a system between two points in time is the one that minimizes the action, a quantity defined by the Lagrangian.

How is the Euler-Lagrange equation applied to the Klein-Gordon Lagrangian?

The Klein-Gordon Lagrangian is a mathematical model used to describe the behavior of a scalar field. The Euler-Lagrange equation is applied to this Lagrangian by taking the derivative of the Lagrangian with respect to the field variable, and then setting it equal to the derivative of the Lagrangian with respect to the time derivative of the field variable. This results in a second-order partial differential equation, known as the Klein-Gordon equation, which describes the behavior of the field.

What are the physical implications of solving the Euler-Lagrange equation for the Klein-Gordon Lagrangian?

Solving the Euler-Lagrange equation for the Klein-Gordon Lagrangian gives us the Klein-Gordon equation, which describes the behavior of a scalar field. This equation has important physical implications, as it is used to model various systems in particle physics, quantum field theory, and cosmology. Solving the Klein-Gordon equation allows us to understand the behavior of these systems and make predictions about their future behavior.

Are there any limitations to using the Euler-Lagrange equation for the Klein-Gordon Lagrangian?

While the Euler-Lagrange equation is a powerful tool for finding the equations of motion for a system, it does have some limitations when applied to the Klein-Gordon Lagrangian. For example, it assumes that the field is continuous and differentiable, which may not always be the case. Additionally, it may not be applicable to systems with complicated boundary conditions or interactions with other fields.

How is the Euler-Lagrange equation used in practical applications of the Klein-Gordon Lagrangian?

The Euler-Lagrange equation is used in practical applications of the Klein-Gordon Lagrangian to solve for the field's behavior in a given system. This allows us to make predictions about the system's future behavior and understand its properties. Additionally, the Klein-Gordon equation is often used in theoretical physics to describe the behavior of fundamental particles and their interactions.

Similar threads

Replies
13
Views
1K
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
41
Views
5K
Replies
0
Views
632
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
Back
Top