Lagrangian in rotating space without potential

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on deriving the centrifugal and Coriolis forces using the Lagrangian for rotating space, specifically with the expression m/2(dr/dt + w x r)^2. The user encounters difficulties applying the chain rule to the term w x r when attempting to differentiate with respect to r. The correct application of the chain rule for cross products is highlighted, emphasizing the need to differentiate each component separately. The final goal is to correctly express the derivatives to derive the expected results.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Lagrangian mechanics
  • Familiarity with vector calculus, particularly cross products
  • Knowledge of the chain rule in calculus
  • Basic concepts of rotational dynamics
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the application of the chain rule to vector functions
  • Learn about Lagrangian dynamics in non-inertial reference frames
  • Explore the derivation of centrifugal and Coriolis forces in detail
  • Review vector calculus, focusing on differentiation of cross products
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Students and professionals in physics, particularly those studying classical mechanics, as well as researchers working on problems involving rotational dynamics and Lagrangian formulations.

ShamelessGit
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Homework Statement



I want to derive the centrifugal and Coriolis forces with the Lagrangian for rotating space. The speed of an object for an outside observer is dr/dt + w x r, where r are the moving coordinates. So m/2(dr/dt + w x r)^2 is the Lagrangian.


The Attempt at a Solution



Everything above makes intuitive sense to me. The problem is that I don't know how to use the chain rule on the w x r.

When I derive it by dr/dt and then by d/dt I get m(d^2r/dt^2 + w x dr/dt), which is what I'm supposed to get.

But when I do it by d/dr I just cannot get what I'm supposed to. I looked all over the internet and I can't find the chain rule for cross products and I've played with it for a long time and it just doesn't work.

Please help.
 
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[tex] <br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial t} (A \times B) = \frac{\partial A}{\partial t} \times B + A \times\frac{\partial B}{\partial t}<br /> [/tex]

Then just apply the chain rule as you normally would for each derivative term, i.e.
[tex] \frac{\partial A}{\partial t} = \frac{\partial A}{\partial r}\frac{\partial r}{\partial t}[/tex]

edit - I realize this might not answer your question, but I'm having a hard time following what you're asking. What do you mean by 'derive it by dr/dt'
 
I mean derive it by r dot, the time derivative of of r.

When I derive it by r I get m(dr/dt + w x r)(d/dr(w x r)) and I don't know what to do with that. It seems reasonable to think that it is equal to m(dr/dt + w x r)(w x 1), but what do I do now? When you use the chain rule like this is it multiplied by a dot product? A cross product?
 

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