LC Model of an Atom: Exploring Inductance & Capacitance

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    Atom Lc Model
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the exploration of an alternative model for the hydrogen atom using concepts of inductance and capacitance, contrasting it with quantum mechanical descriptions. Participants examine the feasibility and implications of using LC circuits to represent atomic behavior, including spectral emissions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the capacitance between a proton and an electron and the inductance of the electron in the electron cloud could model atomic behavior, suggesting that atomic frequencies correspond to resonances of an LC circuit.
  • Another participant argues that classical models, including those based on inductance and capacitance, fail to adequately explain atomic phenomena such as spectral lines and chemical bonds, indicating limitations in this approach.
  • A later reply discusses the process of breaking down equations from mainstream physics into their mathematical components and applying alternative concepts, questioning the value of such models if they do not provide additional insights.
  • Another participant echoes this sentiment, suggesting that if the proposed model could predict behaviors of heavier atoms, it might hold some merit, but expresses concern about the complexity of the model potentially undermining its usefulness.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the viability of using inductance and capacitance to model atomic behavior, with some supporting the exploration of this idea while others emphasize the inadequacies of classical models in explaining quantum phenomena. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the effectiveness of the proposed model.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in classical modeling approaches and the challenges of applying inductive and capacitive concepts to atomic theory, without resolving the mathematical or conceptual complexities involved.

waht
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I know quantum mechanics describies a hydrogen atom in great detail. I'm wondering if there exists another model using the concepts of inductance and capacitance.

Obvioulsy there could exist a capacitance between a proton and an electron and inductance of the electron in the electron cloud.

So the frequencies emmited by the atom are simply different resonances of LC

[tex]\omega = \frac{{1}}{\sqrt LC }[/tex]

I know this is unnessesary or even inadequte, but since everything from radio wave to microwaves is modeled by LC, so just a thought.
 
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The failure of classical models, especially simple models, to explain atomic behavior such as spectral lines, heat capacity, chemical bonds and the periodic table were a powerful impetus to develop quantum theory. Unfortunately, not "everything" can be modeled by L's and C's...
 
what said:
I know [current mainstream physics] describies [something] in great detail. I'm wondering if there exists another model using [different concepts]

If you're going to do this today, the obvious approach is to first take the equations describing the thing your interested in (derived using mainstream technique), break them down into the mathematical constituents (sine functions, square roots, pi, other constants, etc), then choose your favourite set of concepts to apply (maybe relate every sinusoid to a pendulum.. or an LC circuit) and try to draw what the equation describes in terms of your choice of concepts. Finally, come up with a more creative rationale for drawing that picture as your starting point, and exclaim that it produces the exact same result as previous theories! ..but on the other hand, if it sounds kind of complex and arbitrary, and doesn't give any insight into other problems, ... what was the point of this again?
 
cesiumfrog said:
If you're going to do this today, the obvious approach is to first take the equations describing the thing your interested in (derived using mainstream technique), break them down into the mathematical constituents (sine functions, square roots, pi, other constants, etc), then choose your favourite set of concepts to apply (maybe relate every sinusoid to a pendulum.. or an LC circuit) and try to draw what the equation describes in terms of your choice of concepts. Finally, come up with a more creative rationale for drawing that picture as your starting point, and exclaim that it produces the exact same result as previous theories! ..but on the other hand, if it sounds kind of complex and arbitrary, and doesn't give any insight into other problems, ... what was the point of this again?
If the model would work well for different atoms just changing a few parameters, it could be used to predict complicated behaviours of (heavy?) atoms, which are still too difficult to solve with QM; or, from that model, it could also be explored the way two atoms interact...
I think it wouldn't be such a meaningless idea, if the model weren't too complicated.
 

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